New Honda Pilot - Any car experts out there?

[GrumpyDad]

I am by no means an expert, more of an enthusiast. That's being said, I work on all my cars unless I need to drop a gas tank. That I wont do. I even do some body repair, and of course paintless dent repair as well as paint corrections etc. Call it 'for fun' or just because I get to say "I saved $1k" (then immediately proceed to blow it on something else).

We have a Honda Pilot that is used as a family vehicle when we all pile in and need to go somewhere. It's a 2014, has 150k miles on it, and has taken us on many adventures. We opted for the touring package to get the nav unit and the rear entertainment system for the kids at the time. Unfortunately this also comes with larger wheels and lower profile tires.

The issue I have with it, is that it is absolutely the worst and most terrifying vehicle to drive through the hills when there are unsalted roads. All seasons, studless winter tires - it doesnt matter. If I go beyond 5 mph down a hill with this thing, the ABS goes nuts and the vehicle just slides. If I were to do 10mph and try to brake we would be spinning down the hill picking up speed...which is even more terrifying. Ive had the vehicle checked multiple times, no issues.

A friend of mine didnt believe me. We were coming down the mountain one night and were making everyone behind us angry. We pulled off multiple times until eventually got to the bottom. I then let him drive it the next road over next to a post office road whereas no cars were traveling at the time. He accelerated on the flat, hit the hill and slide the whole way to the bottom. His eyes were like saucers, he exited the vehicle and said "dude get this car sucks!" lol

The only thing that seems to work for us is studded tires, and I have to keep them fairly new. Then I can almost keep up with traffic.

Dont get me wrong, this thing is a tank to go through the snow. It will go through 1' of snow up hill when salt trucks are stuck.

We were considering upgrading to the new model. This is a travel vehicle, so reliability is important. While it is a Honda, it's getting to that point that I am wondering if it is time to upgrade.

Id like to stick with Honda. The new Pilot suffers the same issue of requiring a certain package to get the nav unit, larger wheels shorter / wider tire.

I suspect the wider tire is the culprit, as well as being a larger heavier vehicle. But my truck that I had was heavier, and it never had an issue with sliding out.

Curious what people drive in here that works well to go down that hard packed icy snow. I watch little cars, trucks, suvs zoom by us without any issue. Ive owned many vehicles and have never experienced this. This may be a deal breaker for us with the pilot if it seems the newer models will have the same issue. So I might have to look at other options while trying to retain the reliability of the Honda as much as possible.

 

[RomanW]

I've been a mechanic for almost 20 years and I have seen all sorts of combinations work and not work when it comes to wheels. My hunch would be to agree with you. Wide wheels, and low profile tires can be atrocious when it comes to winter driving, and usually need high performance studded tires when driving over icy surfaces. Now again, this isn't ALWAYS the case, but more often than not...

Why not chat with your sales person (If you have a favourite), and see if they would swap out a different wheel combination? We do it here at Ford a lot of the time. Or you could buy a separate set of wheels dedicated for winter that are smaller diameter rims, and larger profile tires.

 

[GrumpyDad]

I've been a mechanic for almost 20 years and I have seen all sorts of combinations work and not work when it comes to wheels. My hunch would be to agree with you. Wide wheels, and low profile tires can be atrocious when it comes to winter driving, and usually need high performance studded tires when driving over icy surfaces. Now again, this isn't ALWAYS the case, but more often than not...

Why not chat with your sales person (If you have a favourite), and see if they would swap out a different wheel combination? We do it here at Ford a lot of the time. Or you could buy a separate set of wheels dedicated for winter that are smaller diameter rims, and larger profile tires.

Thanks for the reply. I considered that, as I do have wheel sets for my two other cars for winter swap outs. When In inquired at Honda, they gave me some non sense about voiding my warranty at the time. When the warranty expired, I swore just one more year and we would get another vehicle as I didnt want my wife driving something that wasnt reliable and swore I would keep that refreshed as it is also (and mostly) our long distance traveler. Then time flew by,...and honestly we just werent seeing the snows we used to or they would happen and the roads would get cleared up. Im at that point now that I have to decide should I spend the money to try a smaller wheel / larger tire or just trade it in now for optimal trade in value (which wont be alot at 150k miles).

 

[Newbie78]

the only car we've ever owned was a 2006 Honda CRV, bought new. It was the only vehicle we've ever driven that had a really excellent abs. Remarkable. However the wheel bearings were crap and highly susceptible to dust/dirt intrusion so they failed regularly and we got good at replacing them. Unfortunately the sensors were always a rusted-in pita to replace. Eventually I just cut all the sensor wires and did away with the abs altogether...

that's a fix for your malfunctioning abs. Get rid of it. You don't need it anyway, as in most vehicles it is not an advantage whatsoever in poor traction conditions, especially if you know how to drive...

 

[RomanW]

that's a fix for your malfunctioning abs. Get rid of it. You don't need it anyway, as in most vehicles it is not an advantage whatsoever in poor traction conditions, especially if you know how to drive...

Said like a true Albertan LOL. I love it. My brother did the same on his WRX, except he also disabled his brake boost assist. Apparently he prefers it that way?

Thanks for the reply. I considered that, as I do have wheel sets for my two other cars for winter swap outs. When In inquired at Honda, they gave me some non sense about voiding my warranty at the time. When the warranty expired, I swore just one more year and we would get another vehicle as I didnt want my wife driving something that wasnt reliable and swore I would keep that refreshed as it is also (and mostly) our long distance traveler. Then time flew by,...and honestly we just werent seeing the snows we used to or they would happen and the roads would get cleared up. Im at that point now that I have to decide should I spend the money to try a smaller wheel / larger tire or just trade it in now for optimal trade in value (which wont be alot at 150k miles).

Warranty issues? Seriously? That's a load of crap. Although, that would not surprise me with Honda.

That being said, I just talked with a colleague of mine who just came from Honda, and he also said that's crap. You can put whatever you want on your vehicles as long as the wheel circumference and width are the same or very similar and not rubbing or contacting anything on the vehicle.

 

[Newbie78]

Over rated, just like Toyota.

 

[RomanW]

Over rated, just like Toyota.

I own a Sienna, and wouldn't trade it for anything else. I have had nothing but good experiences with Toyota.

 

[Newbie78]

And good experiences are most common with almost any vehicle made today. Except sometimes..grrrr.

 

[RomanW]

Uh oh lol

What happened?

 

[bholler]

Said like a true Albertan LOL. I love it. My brother did the same on his WRX, except he also disabled his brake boost assist. Apparently he prefers it that way?

Warranty issues? Seriously? That's a load of crap. Although, that would not surprise me with Honda.

That being said, I just talked with a colleague of mine who just came from Honda, and he also said that's crap. You can put whatever you want on your vehicles as long as the wheel circumference and width are the same or very similar and not rubbing or contacting anything on the vehicle.

Technically in pa it has to be the original size that came on the vehicle to pass inspection. But very few places care

 

[ABMax24]

Technically in pa it has to be the original size that came on the vehicle to pass inspection. But very few places care

Alberta doesn't care, we don't have inspections on vehicles, ever. Except if you buy a used one over 12 years old, then it needs a single "insurance inspection" to get insurance.

Lifts, big tires, diesel deletes, etc. All fair game here.

 

[bholler]

Alberta doesn't care, we don't have inspections on vehicles, ever. Except if you buy a used one over 12 years old, then it needs a single "insurance inspection" to get insurance.

Lifts, big tires, diesel deletes, etc. All fair game here.

We have inspections yearly. But really I have never had anyone say a thing about it to me. Other than a tire shop doing an inspection. They were trying to sell me new tires but did show it to me in the book because I didn't believe them

 

[ABMax24]

To the original question:

My wife has a 2018 Chevrolet Colorado with the 2.8 diesel. We run studded Nokian Hakkepelitta 9 tires on it. It is by far the nicest handling vehicle I have ever driven on icy winter roads. I drive a fair bit for work in a variety of pickups from 1/2 tons to F550's pulling triple axle goosenecks loaded to max GCWR, and nothing tops her truck.

We drove back home 1000km over Christmas on freezing rain covered highways, vehicles in the ditch everywhere, and did it all at or above the speed limit. The roads were bad, but between that truck and the tires it still felt more than safe on the road.

 

[sneefy]

Have you checked the alignment?

Also, what tire brand/model are you running or have you run?

 

[RomanW]

Technically in pa it has to be the original size that came on the vehicle to pass inspection. But very few places care

That's fair, I always forget that we ahve it pretty good here compared to other places. That being said though, that still doesn't (or shouldn't) affect warranty from a manufacturer stand point.

 

[bholler]

That's fair, I always forget that we ahve it pretty good here compared to other places. That being said though, that still doesn't (or shouldn't) affect warranty from a manufacturer stand point.

Of course it will. Typically customizing much of anything does. If not people would expect them to fix driveline issues due to large offsets etc.

 

[gzecc]

Ice with anti lock brakes is bad. Id rather not have anti lock on ice. If one tire is on ice and on tire is on dry pavement, you don't stop.
Can you remove the fuse that controls the abs? Try it without?

 

[bholler]

Ice with anti lock brakes is bad. Id rather not have anti lock on ice. If one tire is on ice and on tire is on dry pavement, you don't stop.
Can you remove the fuse that controls the abs? Try it without?

That depends on the abs system. Many only activate on the slipping wheel

 

[PaulOinMA]

Search Magnuson - Moss Warranty Act. Folks on car forums state that the burden of proof is on the vehicle manufacturer to demonstrate a modification voids warranty.

 

[bholler]

Search Magnuson - Moss Warranty Act. Folks on car forums state that the burden of proof is on the vehicle manufacturer to demonstrate a modification voids warranty.

Pretty sure considering the fact that changing tire size is against state regulations in pa where the op lives they would be able to get away with it.

 

[peakbagger]

My Rav 4 Prime came with wide 4 season tires. For my winter rims I went with a smaller diameter rim with taller tires, they are slightly bigger outer circumference but when I use my GPS to compare tomy speedometer, the slight taller winter tires read closer to the GPS reading while the stock tires read a few mph lower. Most car companies use slightly optimistic speedmeter calibrations as the owner like to think they are getting better mileage. Hondas used to be infamous for that and got tagged in class action lawsuits where they ended up having to write checks to owners.

I run Nokia snows which are good but nothing compares to studded tires unless the car has suspension issues. If the springs, shocks and alignment are off, weird handling can occur.

 

[sneefy]

My Rav 4 Prime came with wide 4 season tires. For my winter rims I went with a smaller diameter rim with taller tires, they are slightly bigger outer circumference but when I use my GPS to compare tomy speedometer, the slight taller winter tires read closer to the GPS reading while the stock tires read a few mph lower. Most car companies use slightly optimistic speedmeter calibrations as the owner like to think they are getting better mileage. Hondas used to be infamous for that and got tagged in class action lawsuits where they ended up having to write checks to owners.

I run Nokia snows which are good but nothing compares to studded tires unless the car has suspension issues. If the springs, shocks and alignment are off, weird handling can occur.

*Nokian

 

[GrumpyDad]

Search Magnuson - Moss Warranty Act. Folks on car forums state that the burden of proof is on the vehicle manufacturer to demonstrate a modification voids warranty.

Yes that's what worked for me for my alfa romeo

 

[GrumpyDad]

Ice with anti lock brakes is bad. Id rather not have anti lock on ice. If one tire is on ice and on tire is on dry pavement, you don't stop.
Can you remove the fuse that controls the abs? Try it without?

Honestly I never thought of the fuse idea. I know that works on my Motorcycle.

 

[GrumpyDad]

So, I havent tried to remove the ABS from the equation and again this is mostly my wife's vehicle when we arent out as a family. She doesnt drive far but does drive through rush hour. So usually snow isnt a major issue as those roads are well taken care of.

Where is matters for us is when we are out at our local mountains. We havent really had to worry about it much because once we are there we are there and can stay put if we need to, (or shuttle around). But a few times we need to be somewhere and the roads are slick.

So I started down the road of...ok try different sized wheels maybe? But man I will be bummed that I wasted that money and this vehicle is still dog water in the snow. So I said ok, all seasons even fairly new suck in the snow...let's get studded snow tires.

Then of course I was talked OUT of studded snow tires and into Blizzaks. Tried those, hmmm ok yea these are a bit better. Next season, nope - still scary as hell. HOW?!
Next time, talked into Michelin XICE3 by a friend "Oh blizzaks are sooooo overrated...get the x ice 3 bro, you'll go in everything"
Nope - they sucked too.
At this point, Im back to thinking damn...I should have tried the wheels. Then it was a year of heavy snow and travel and I had to decide if I was going to keep the summer all seasons on and avoid being out, swap them for the old XICE3S, ...try the wheels on a car that I may keep maybe another 6 months, or try the time tested el cheapo studded snow tires. I did search for wheels at the time and had a hard time finding wheels cheap then, and that's when the snow came in early / often/ and we were forecast to have a bad winter. SO I went with studded snow tires, and they were better than the studless by 1000 percent.

Suffice to say, our track history shows that we keep saying we are going to trade in for a new car, but we dont...however I think we are serious this time. 150k miles and it's not uncommon for us to be taking a 1k road trip...so this time I think Im serious, and as much as Id like to think about the pilot, I may have to throw in the idea that I may need to 1. buy different winter wheels 2. be prepared to box the dealer 3. get my inspections done by the local shop that just slaps a sticker on anything that pulls into the lot.