New Honda Pilot - Any car experts out there?
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SpaceBus
Minister of Fire
I came here to say this. The OEM must also prove that the modification lead to the failure. Ford got into trouble over this claiming that they wouldn't honor transmission warranty problems on Mustangs because the owners changed out mufflers.
My truck slides down icy hills in 4 HI and wearing six mud terrain tires if I'm not careful with the brakes. My truck has a six speed manual, so it's easy enough to just use engine braking in those scenarios. The only thing that can help with descending icy hills is studded tires.
Your dealer was trying to pull a fast one with the wheel and tire thing. Honda offers the same vehicle with smaller diameter wheels, for which they offer larger optional wheels and still honor the warranty.
What tires are on the Pilot?
I bought Continental CrossContact LX25 for my '14 Escape after the OE tires were done. Great reviews at tirerack. Good snow performance for not being 3PMS tires. Didn't put snows on this year.
Bought the previous CrossContact LX20 for my wife's '12 Escape.
My '14 Escape came with optional 19-inch wheels. I bought 18s off the Escape forum for an extra half-inch sidewall. Tires less expensive, too. The 19s will go back on as soon as my wife's Bronco Sport arrives. Will be selling the '14 Escape.
I really want to use up the OE Bridgestones on my '22 Escape to buy something else.
My wife's Bronco Sport will come with AT tires.
I bought Continental CrossContact LX25 for my '14 Escape after the OE tires were done. Great reviews at tirerack. Good snow performance for not being 3PMS tires. Didn't put snows on this year.
Bought the previous CrossContact LX20 for my wife's '12 Escape.
My '14 Escape came with optional 19-inch wheels. I bought 18s off the Escape forum for an extra half-inch sidewall. Tires less expensive, too. The 19s will go back on as soon as my wife's Bronco Sport arrives. Will be selling the '14 Escape.
I really want to use up the OE Bridgestones on my '22 Escape to buy something else.
My wife's Bronco Sport will come with AT tires.
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tlc1976
Minister of Fire
Are the roads smooth or do they jolt your car and make your wheels jump like they do in Michigan?
How are the brakes and suspension? Anything causing it to brake unevenly?
Worn shocks/struts can make it handle crooked, especially if they’re worn unevenly. One of my vehicles would start to go sideways on downhill bumps before I replaced the shocks. Another one would hop when approaching stop signs before I replaced the struts. Even a broken sway bar link can make it handle off kilter. I even had one car where the bar itself snapped inside the bushing, so it wasn’t as obvious so find it.
How are the brakes and suspension? Anything causing it to brake unevenly?
Worn shocks/struts can make it handle crooked, especially if they’re worn unevenly. One of my vehicles would start to go sideways on downhill bumps before I replaced the shocks. Another one would hop when approaching stop signs before I replaced the struts. Even a broken sway bar link can make it handle off kilter. I even had one car where the bar itself snapped inside the bushing, so it wasn’t as obvious so find it.
Wife's dodge half ton developed a hole in the rad last week.I didn't fix it, the shop did. Wife said the shop said that the fan (must mean the electric one) was contacting the rad?? It was actually reasonable for a rad and water pump (might as well just do that on a high mileage vehicle when it's easy to get to). I feel guilty for not fixing it myself, but oh well...I have enough stuff to do around here...
RomanW
Member
Don't think I've seen it mentioned but I'd lean towards it having some type of engine braking or downhill braking assist. What speed transmission is it? less gears usually mean bigger steps between gears. I'm betting every time you touch the brakes it's downshifting. Have you tried using manual gears? Is the downhill assist engaged?
No modes. It's a 2014. Honda always lags behind in tech. Instrument menus are confusing, no touch screen, it still uses an actual physical key.
The only mode it has is what is called vtm lock. I can't recall what that means but it allows you to get better traction going forward through snow, it does nothing for stopping.
To the point of shocks/struts, this vehicle has 150k miles correct? If you have yet to replace, they are almost guaranteed to be bad.
Brakes/rotors are brand new, I just replaced them.
There a no suspension issues, at best I might want to get an alignment after this winter and the potholes. Although I can't say we've had much of a winter. This week the temps will average out at 50ish with one day potentially getting to 65! What the heck.
I already know what this means. It's going to snow in May again..and feel like the endless pseudo winter we had about 6 years ago.
50-100k miles is the max you can expect life on shocks/struts. They slowly deteriorate. I have seen may people believe theirs are fine until they replace. You can pop the lower rear shock bolt off and compress it to test it. (I'm pretty sure that is not a rear strut but I could be wrong).
It was something I had my wife check when she went in for inspection to the dealer and they said no they are fine. Shocking I know. I normally do or did a lot of work on my cars but am too busy aside from brake jobs and rotations.
tlc1976
Minister of Fire
No issues of caliper pins binding or anything? Just covering all the bases.
Same here, when the lakes warm up prematurely, it dumps back as lake effect and can snow into May.
That I don't know. I usually only pull a wheel and test brakes when I suspect an issue and usually I only suspect an issue when I hear noise or pulling or excessively quick or long braking.
I actually just installed these brakes , got them from Napa. I'm a big fan of oem, but was in a hurry. Kinda regretting because they are grinding a bit just before full stop. Told myself it was just road grime from winter but it's happened three days now soz I have to warm up the garage and pull the wheel. Not happy.
Why do I suspect this is a "help me convince myself to take on a new car payment" thread? I once had a friend ask me if I thought his 5-year-old truck needed a new battery. I determined that it did and told him if he went and picked one up, I'd change it out for him. You can guess that he came back without the battery in a new truck. Whatever! Didn't take much to convince him! It would have been nice if he had at least offered to sell me the otherwise perfect truck for what the dealer gave him, though.
The reality is that the ice problem is your tires. I live next to a ski area, and the winding mountain road here has been solid white since October and will be until probably April. All of my vehicles have a set of snows (studded) because it makes all the difference. I even have a pair of studs that go on my utility trailer. Once the tires are changed out, life goes on without drama. Travel on ice in the winter is easier, faster, and safer than summer due to the absence of RVs and wildlife watchers!
You might not want to run studs because of the prohibitions in that region, but it sounds like you need something. The first rule of winter is that all-season tires suck on ice. The lower profile, performance-oriented tires, suck even more. I have never seen a vehicle with good three peak - snowflake, snow tires that couldn't function on ice and snow. My observation is that a vehicle that handles well in the dry, will handle well in winter, once equipped with proper tires. A vehicle that handles poorly in the dry, will handle poorly in winter, with the proper tires, but it will still stop, start and turn.
I own both types of vehicles. A FWD Lumina sedan from the prior century, and a newish AWD Fusion - with far too many electronics. Those are the good ones, and my winter weapons of choice. The old one with the big V6 that has torque and compression braking instantly on tap is more enjoyable to drive quickly in winter than the new 2.0 turbo with neither, despite fewer driving wheels. I have a 96 Grand Cherokee with about a 4" lift that's my go-to when the snow is getting more than a foot deep on the roads, but I have no desire to drive it in the winter unless I have to wade about in deep snow, or tow something. It just handles poorly year-round, but with good tires, traction isn't the issue. What is an issue is the lack of manners during an unplanned drift at speeds above about 35, maneuvers to avoid the odd deer or moose, or a good ice rut swap at speed -that kind of thing. While I find a little sideways twitch at highway speeds to be perhaps entertaining in the sedans, the same thing is terrifying to me in a poor handling, high CG vehicle! That's usually the type of vehicle spotted upside down in the median (normally with bad tires!) for a reason, I think.
Getting to your issue with ABS, I find the ABS in the 2019 Fusion to be very good. The 96 Jeep is also rather good. The 99 Lumina has a terrible ABS system and has scared the hell out of me under certain circumstances a few times. The thing is, ice isn't really a problem for them, especially the newer ones, as long as they have some traction to work with from appropriate tires.
Case in point, the Fusion got two new sets of tires and wheels to replace the stock 245 wide 19" low profiles as soon as I got it home. 225/60R16 Firestone all weather for the not-winter season (I still have to deal with snowy roads in the summer), and 215/60R16 Hankook iPikes, studded. The all weather tires are quite good in snow and slush, but as mentioned above, as an all weather {~season}, though these aren't awful, performance drops off quite a bit for ice. I had put them on for a long trip during a spring warm stretch, and I still had them on when the ice made a comeback. Pulling up to my cluster mailbox as I had without issue all winter, it was brakes denied! Same as your issue. Luckily, they did have just enough traction to steer around the mailbox. If my OE low profiles (M+S rated) could have made it out of the driveway (a maybe, due to the AWD), I would have surely killed the mailbox and car with those. I only keep them for the odd autocross.
So, I don't think it's an either/or question of snow tires vs. replacing the vehicle. It sounds like your conditions make it a matter of: You need snow tires, then the question is one of getting them for your current vehicle, or it's replacement. Problem solved either way, no big payment with the former.
And if it was me selecting a replacement, for pleasant winter driving, it would be nothing taller than a crossover, unless there was some need dictating something different. It's not the Tahoes and pickups that rule the winter rally races. It's the WRXs and the like! I'm not so narrow minded that I don't have a 4 Runner (that I won't lift!) on my watch list, though I will continue to own a sedan for as long as I can get them. AWD is a modest plus, if you really need it, but not a game changer for me to the point where I would reject a FWD if it otherwise made sense, and I get 16 feet of snow a year here. It's all about the tires!
The reality is that the ice problem is your tires. I live next to a ski area, and the winding mountain road here has been solid white since October and will be until probably April. All of my vehicles have a set of snows (studded) because it makes all the difference. I even have a pair of studs that go on my utility trailer. Once the tires are changed out, life goes on without drama. Travel on ice in the winter is easier, faster, and safer than summer due to the absence of RVs and wildlife watchers!
You might not want to run studs because of the prohibitions in that region, but it sounds like you need something. The first rule of winter is that all-season tires suck on ice. The lower profile, performance-oriented tires, suck even more. I have never seen a vehicle with good three peak - snowflake, snow tires that couldn't function on ice and snow. My observation is that a vehicle that handles well in the dry, will handle well in winter, once equipped with proper tires. A vehicle that handles poorly in the dry, will handle poorly in winter, with the proper tires, but it will still stop, start and turn.
I own both types of vehicles. A FWD Lumina sedan from the prior century, and a newish AWD Fusion - with far too many electronics. Those are the good ones, and my winter weapons of choice. The old one with the big V6 that has torque and compression braking instantly on tap is more enjoyable to drive quickly in winter than the new 2.0 turbo with neither, despite fewer driving wheels. I have a 96 Grand Cherokee with about a 4" lift that's my go-to when the snow is getting more than a foot deep on the roads, but I have no desire to drive it in the winter unless I have to wade about in deep snow, or tow something. It just handles poorly year-round, but with good tires, traction isn't the issue. What is an issue is the lack of manners during an unplanned drift at speeds above about 35, maneuvers to avoid the odd deer or moose, or a good ice rut swap at speed -that kind of thing. While I find a little sideways twitch at highway speeds to be perhaps entertaining in the sedans, the same thing is terrifying to me in a poor handling, high CG vehicle! That's usually the type of vehicle spotted upside down in the median (normally with bad tires!) for a reason, I think.
Getting to your issue with ABS, I find the ABS in the 2019 Fusion to be very good. The 96 Jeep is also rather good. The 99 Lumina has a terrible ABS system and has scared the hell out of me under certain circumstances a few times. The thing is, ice isn't really a problem for them, especially the newer ones, as long as they have some traction to work with from appropriate tires.
Case in point, the Fusion got two new sets of tires and wheels to replace the stock 245 wide 19" low profiles as soon as I got it home. 225/60R16 Firestone all weather for the not-winter season (I still have to deal with snowy roads in the summer), and 215/60R16 Hankook iPikes, studded. The all weather tires are quite good in snow and slush, but as mentioned above, as an all weather {~season}, though these aren't awful, performance drops off quite a bit for ice. I had put them on for a long trip during a spring warm stretch, and I still had them on when the ice made a comeback. Pulling up to my cluster mailbox as I had without issue all winter, it was brakes denied! Same as your issue. Luckily, they did have just enough traction to steer around the mailbox. If my OE low profiles (M+S rated) could have made it out of the driveway (a maybe, due to the AWD), I would have surely killed the mailbox and car with those. I only keep them for the odd autocross.
So, I don't think it's an either/or question of snow tires vs. replacing the vehicle. It sounds like your conditions make it a matter of: You need snow tires, then the question is one of getting them for your current vehicle, or it's replacement. Problem solved either way, no big payment with the former.
And if it was me selecting a replacement, for pleasant winter driving, it would be nothing taller than a crossover, unless there was some need dictating something different. It's not the Tahoes and pickups that rule the winter rally races. It's the WRXs and the like! I'm not so narrow minded that I don't have a 4 Runner (that I won't lift!) on my watch list, though I will continue to own a sedan for as long as I can get them. AWD is a modest plus, if you really need it, but not a game changer for me to the point where I would reject a FWD if it otherwise made sense, and I get 16 feet of snow a year here. It's all about the tires!
it definitely is all about the tires. if you get narrow tires but you need to get the same hight to keep your speedometer the same for looking at and for the computer so it doesn't run rich or lean. if you get a narrow set of tires on a different rim there will be more pounds per square inch on the road and make like a heavier car. wide tires in the snow make for a lighter psi on the road so there will be less traction. if you are on true ice they don't make a tire that can handle true ice snow and slush are different than ice. if you are on ice you would have no control at all. if you don't believe me get in a true ice spot and see if you can move and or brake. if you are coming down a hill and start to slide take it out of gear and you will see that you will have to lighten up on your brakes and you will stop. if you don't take it out of gear you will have to over come the drive forward plus the brakes. for what i'm saying all you have to do is try it. the best in snow that i have seen is the subaru. i have heard about honda's in the snow around here. besides the tires it's all in the center of gravity that someone touched in a above post. also be aware that some vehicles when you run studs on them beat the bearings and transmissions. on some cars... i had two friends in the transmission biz and they would laugh at studs for what they do to these cars.
yea I heard that too on some of the older american cars. That's not a problem today, at least it isnt for any car I would bother with.
I had a dream that someone gave me a new set of studded tires...
I guess I think about these issues alot while sleeping.
At the rate this winter has been, wow - what winter. No need for winter tires. I dont remember a single snowfall here that was above 1", and they cancelled schools for that! lol. We used to get 4-6 inches before they would delay the start of school.
And this isnt the first winter that has been crappy for snow. Every year it seems to get worse and worse.
I cant believe it has been this long but about 18 years ago, I bought a truck because I was sick of sliding around in a car. For 3 years afterwards, it barely snowed at all.
I bought new snowblower last winter
Never used this year.if you keep buying we'll get no snow and for those of us that don't care if it snows again that's greatI cant believe it has been this long but about 18 years ago, I bought a truck because I was sick of sliding around in a car. For 3 years afterwards, it barely snowed at all.
I bought new snowblower last winter
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