New house and probably a really dumb question

[jeffster]

Ok, so first off, great site! We are building a custom home on property and due to the plentiful supply of firewood, we wanted a wood burning insert for supplemental heat (well, probably more for aesthetics than heat to be honest). The house is all framed now and our builder assured us we would save some money going with a framed chimney with a stainless liner instead of masonry, which was ok since nobody is ever going to see the back of our house anyway. On the inside however, the opening is all wood framed as well. I was surprised when the builder said we are ready to purchase the insert and install it, as I expected it to be at least masonry on the inside. He said for gas and wood inserts, they always do wood framing with a faux masonry front.

I know very little about inserts, so I would appreciate any thoughts on this. Is this safe? Do people normally install inserts in to non-masonry "fireplaces"?

We were looking at the Lopi Freedom Bay or the Quadra-Fire 5100, if that helps.

I am attaching a picture of the room as it sits today. That opening is 42" wide, by 24" deep.

Thanks all,
-Jeff

 

[Chuck Pearson]

I have a stainless steel insert and the only masonry is the concrete of the fireplace and the tiles of the hearth. The stainless steel insert should be double-walled with either solid insulation between the layers (helps keep the inside surface hot but is more expensive and maybe more fragile) or air between the layers. The outside of the insert is cool enough to not burn down your house.

 

[thechimneysweep]

We encounter this terminology problem almost daily. An Insert can only be installed inside an existing fireplace. For a wood-framed chase, you need another beastie entirely, called a zero-clearance fireplace. These are made to be installed in combustible enclosures, and vent using insulated chimney pipe, not chimney liner.

The Lopi Freedom Bay and Quadrafire 5100 are both inserts, and are not on the menu for you unless you want to build or buy a fireplace to insert them into.

There are several high-efficiency zero clearance wood fireplaces in the marketplace. Check out:

RSF Energy
BIS
Fireplace Extraordinaire

 

[jeffster]

All, thanks for the quick and very helpful replies. It seems that indeed there was a terminology mismatch between the builder and ourselves. I specifically asked for an insert like the ones I listed when we were in the design stages, yet the builder interpreted something else entirely. Being that this is certainly not my area of expertise, I didn't even think about it while the subs were framing.

Thanks again for all the great info though. Looks like I am going to have to go another direction now. Thanks for the suggestions!

-Jeff

 

[Mike Wilson]

Wow, what an opportunity you have, seriously. I would skip the fireplace entirely and install a (broken link removed to http://www.stonecomfort.com/soapstone-fireplace-catalog.aspx) stove right in the middle of the house somewhere. You'll never have a better opportunity to heat your home with wood.

-- Mike

 

[hearthtools]

and the Kozy heat z42
www.kozyheat.com

 

[hearthtools]

Wow, what an opportunity you have, seriously. I would skip the fireplace entirely and install a (broken link removed to http://www.stonecomfort.com/soapstone-fireplace-catalog.aspx) stove right in the middle of the house somewhere. You'll never have a better opportunity to heat your home with wood.

-- Mike

I had to chuckle when I seen this post
Along with your Avator
When I think of the Tulikivi I think of wood burning.
yes a wood framed house burning down from a Kiva stove not installed or used properly.

 

[Burn-1]

I had to chuckle when I seen this post
Along with your Avator
When I think of the Tulikivi I think of wood burning.
yes a wood framed house burning down from a Kiva stove not installed or used properly.

I think one would really have to screw up to burn down a house using a Tulikivi. Masonry heater design, particularly the Finnish designs are pretty safe. Not saying it couldn't be done but I'll second Mike's suggestion except a Temp-Cast might be more cost effective just not as pretty. Either of these or any masonry heater would probably require some heavy duty footing under it though.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

remember also that this is a "supplimental" heat source and asthetics is important , does a masonary heater give the "fireplace "look? also they are already framed out the foundation for that thing would have to be laid yet and it may be a bit of a mess doing so at this stage of construction. my suggestion if heat plus a nice look is instead of the fireplace , maybe a hearth and a stove that would go with the planned decour of the room its going to be in. with a clear canvas (so to speak) a room could literally be designed around the hearth, making it the focal point of the room. choosing a nice unit that will match the owners taste and needs and go from there. form and function.

<disclaimer> remember im biased towards the stove being a focal point personally, and this may not be in the builders intentions. but GAWD! i would love to have that opportunity in my home. maybe next time...

 

[stoveguy2esw]

Jeff -

You cannot install the inserts you mentioned in a wood framed area. I would guess/hope your builder plans to put in some kind of factory-build fireplace into which you would then install the insert you pick out???

This can be a problematic installation, as I can guarantee you that the manufacturer of the factory-built unit has not tested or listed their fireplace with any other manufacturer's inserts. The factory-built fireplace's chimney pipe is rarely the appropriate kind, either. Since you're at the framing stage it would be a simple matter to install an EPA/Washington State certified fireplace and be done with it, and that's what I'd advise if you were my client.

Your Lopi dealer probably carries Fireplace Xtroardinair and Quadrafire makes one too. You might check some other brands as well - RSF, for example, has a nice lineup including two models with fairly small fireboxes (a real consideration, since these things are SERIOUS furnaces).

Best -

FPG

by the way , welcome to the hearth, look forward to "workin with ya"

mike

 

[begreen]

Jeff, how big is the house and the room the ZC is being installed in? Seems like a big unit for WA climate. Is this in eastern WA? Are the exterior walls 2x6 or 2x4?

 

[jeffster]

Jeff, how big is the house and the room the ZC is being installed in? Seems like a big unit for WA climate. Is this in eastern WA? Are the exterior walls 2x6 or 2x4?

House is in SW Washington. It is a fairly open area where the unit is located (main living room which is open to the kitchen and a dining area). Total square footage of the house is 3389. Primary heat and cooling source is an electric heat pump. Exterior framing is all 2x6.

Thanks!

 

[hearthtools]

I had to chuckle when I seen this post
Along with your Avator
When I think of the Tulikivi I think of wood burning.
yes a wood framed house burning down from a Kiva stove not installed or used properly.

I think one would really have to screw up to burn down a house using a Tulikivi. Masonry heater design, particularly the Finnish designs are pretty safe. Not saying it couldn't be done but I'll second Mike's suggestion except a Temp-Cast might be more cost effective just not as pretty. Either of these or any masonry heater would probably require some heavy duty footing under it though.

I have only seen two
They were both in homes that we were putting 3 other gas fireplaces in

The homeowner bought it online and ask us to install it.
I SAID NO WAY.

Just looking at the installation of the air cooled pipe scared the crap out of me.
it was in a corner
the pipe was Crooked (not just a little but alot)
not enough clearance from combustible thru the trusses
No firestop
No storm collar just sealed up around the chase cap.

They ran Black gas line into it for a gas log.
this scares me because we only have LPG and that stove dont look safe to use LPG in.

The general contractor did all the work.
Yes the Inspector passed it. but I dont think they ever seen one.

The other I seen was a little better but still looked cheezie to me.

 

[jeffster]

Well gang, here is an update. We finally got our zero clearance fireplace all installed and the masonry up. Thanks so much for educating me on this subject. I learned a lot. We decided on the Heat N Glow NorthStar model. Here is a picture of it almost finished. Thanks again!

 

[begreen]

Beautiful installation Jeff! I like the keystone over the stove. Nice touch!