New member new wood stove

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vernorz

New Member
Aug 26, 2021
2
Massachusetts
Greetings! It seems I may have found the place for some sage advise regarding a new wood stove purchase. We would like to get a wood stove for the open living/kitchen area of our house. The area is roughly 650 square feet with cathedral ceilings about 12 feet high. There are 2 ceiling fans as well for circulation. This portion of the house was rebuilt in 2009 by the previous owners, has heated floors, and a beautiful fireplace. Unfortunately I think they skimped when it came to insulation. The room just never feels very warm in the depths of winter in New England, besides our feet. We understand having a fireplace for ambiance, especially since the floors are heated, but we would just rather have a wood stove for safety, a source of heat if power goes out, and to add more warmth to the room.

I know the wood stove would mess with the thermostat for the floor, but in all honesty we'd rather have the entire room be warm than just our feet. We would put the stove in the fireplace part way to get some hearth clearance in order to avoid a large extension. Keep in mind, this stove wouldn't be for heating the whole house, so overnight burns aren't really a concern. I've narrowed the choices down to the following due to their smaller size:

1. Morso 1410
2. Morso 7110
3. Jotul F 602 V2
4. Hearthstone Craftsbury
5. Hearthstone Green Mountain 40
6. Vermont Casting Intrepid Flexburn

The concerns I have are:

1. Being partially in a fireplace, installed with a block off plate, would all these stoves be able to heat the space?
2. Maintenance might be an issue with the Craftsbury and Green Mountain due to access to the catalyst from the back of the stove. I'm not sure I want to have to pull the stove out whenever I have to clean or replace the catalyst.
3. The damper for the fireplace is about 4x13. Would a 6 inch liner squeeze down or would I have to go with an oval liner?
4. Should I even consider the Vermont Castings? I haven't seen much on the new 2020 Intrepid, so should I go with the not so good opinions I've read about VC?
5. What else should I be thinking about?

I'll be doing more digging, this forum is a treasure trove of valuable information.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
89,456
South Puget Sound, WA
Look at the Morso 7110 instead for larger capacity and it qualifies for the 26% tax credit. The VC Intrepid and the Aspen C3 have their thermostat in the back of the stove. This may lead to false reading and improper operation due to high temps in the back of the fireplace.
 

NewGuy132

New Member
Jan 22, 2021
37
MA
Don't know much about the other stoves mentioned, but I am waiting on a VC Intrepid myself. I ordered it in March or April. It came in last month and was damaged in shipping. I was told the end of Sept for the replacement. I wouldn't plan on having anything installed for this year unless someone local happens to have something in stock.

What part of MA are you from? There are a few good shops in the state.
 

EbS-P

Minister of Fire
Jan 19, 2019
1,163
SE North Carolina
3. The damper for the fireplace is about 4x13. Would a 6 inch liner squeeze down or would I have to go with an oval liner?
My installer removed the entire damper. Liner shape is determined by flue size. What size it the flue? I like my hearth stove. I like the bigger glass and bigger fire show. On your list the 7110 would be my choice. Look at the nova fire insert or BK Sirracco insert. They are bigger maybe too big but would be my other choices for tax credit stoves/ inserts.
Evan
 

kennyp2339

Minister of Fire
Feb 16, 2014
5,916
07462
Do you have a real masonry fireplace or a zero clearance unit with a brick overlay?
 

Woodsplitter67

Minister of Fire
Jan 19, 2017
1,955
Woolwich nj
If you have a real masonry fireplace why not go with an insert. It will have a large fire viewing area and the stove pipe will exit straight up and through the chimney.. no 90s and 45s.. Your draft will be better if it goes straight up. That being said did you look at the lopi lg next gen fri.. How large is the opening. With 12 ft ceiling thats going to suck up a lot of the heat which is why the room seams cold with radiant heat. Just some thoughts..
 
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Bad LP

Minister of Fire
Nov 28, 2014
1,719
Northern Maine
I know your looking at wood heat but a cold room with RFH says something is wrong.
What water loop temp are you running? Any idea on the spacing of the PEX? Is it stapled to the underside of the floor or installed otherwise?
 

vernorz

New Member
Aug 26, 2021
2
Massachusetts
Thank you for all the replies! So to start, I haven't dug too much into how the pex was installed. I would have to tear down some insulation in the basement between the floor joists to see. My guess is it's stapled to the floor, but again, that's just a guess. I'm not sure what the water loop temperature is. We bought the house last September, and radiant flooring is a new animal to me. The thermostat is usually set at about 68 in the winter, but it does get pretty cold here, Berkshire County, single digits aren't unusual with some below 0 days here and there, and we have bumped it up to 72. The room is facing west and we do get some wicked winds coming in over the mountains. Now that I'm describing it, I'm not surprised it feels a bit cooler in this room.

The chimney is a stone masonry chimney, 17' tall, with a 13x13 flue. It's mostly interior, with about 8' outside as it comes out of the roof. The problem with installing an insert is the depth and shape of the firebox. The fire box is only 15 inches deep. The opening is about 40 inches in front and tapers to about 15 inches in the back. So the firebox isn't big enough for any inserts I've looked at.

The reason I'm looking at these stoves is because they all have the option for top exit, and I think I can get away with top exit because they can be placed far enough back into the fire box where I can go straight up.

Great advice on the thermostat location on the VC, I never would have thought of that as a potential problem. I'm definitely leaning toward the Morso 7110.
 
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begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
89,456
South Puget Sound, WA
I know your looking at wood heat but a cold room with RFH says something is wrong.
What water loop temp are you running? Any idea on the spacing of the PEX? Is it stapled to the underside of the floor or installed otherwise?
With a high ceiling, it's possible that most of the hot air in the room is at the upper 4 ft of the room. That can make the room feel chilly when sitting. Are the ceiling fan(s) run in reverse in the winter?
 

EbS-P

Minister of Fire
Jan 19, 2019
1,163
SE North Carolina
would have to tear down some insulation
Or an excuse for a FLIR camera for you phone. Here is a pic of my electric radiant floor. This is the shower.
B9D3C57F-46F9-46C5-9E00-BE17297737F6.jpeg

that is a wide to —not wide opening. How deep is it? Would a BK princess insert have chance of fitting. 650 sq ft with high ceilings in the dead of winter is a pretty large space and volume if you are thinking it might be lacking insulation . My experience with an f400 (1.75cu ft) in Maine would make think hard about any stove under 1.5 cu ft

Last point my radiant floor was installed with a temp sensor in the floor and thermostat settings let me choose if I want to use the floor temp or the room (thermostat) temp.
Just thoughts

evan

5213CB16-6781-4646-9ED3-BE0E32E837DE.png
 

Bad LP

Minister of Fire
Nov 28, 2014
1,719
Northern Maine
With a high ceiling, it's possible that most of the hot air in the room is at the upper 4 ft of the room. That can make the room feel chilly when sitting. Are the ceiling fan(s) run in reverse in the winter?
My house was a custom build in 2005-6. Yes it's over the 25% rule for glazing. 2X6 walls, 2X12 TGI floors and 2X12 roof. FG insulation with 1" rigid under the cathedral ceilings or about 70% of the second floor. Cathedral is 50-50 T&G pine and skim coat plaster.

In my experience.
I have 10 foot ceilings and an open floor plan throughout with a cathedral area that has an open office area looking down onto the first floor entryway.
If I do not turn the office zone up you can feel the coolness of the space even with the first floor RFH set at 72. That heat is not rising to the 2nd floor area or the ridge of the house and it's a huge opening for the heat to rise into.

Now the issue may be a staple up system is losing a lot of transfer thru the subfloor. I believe that knowing a staple up is what I installed in a very large bathroom at work that has a tile floor and it was very uncomfortable due to all the glass. I insulated below with polyiso sheets and sealed the open ends with foam so the heat had to go up but I still found that the floor sensor had to have a much higher temperture setting to keep the area comfortable. In fact about 20 degrees higher than my gypcrete tile floors located in a much harsher climate.
Wall to wall carpet or heavy area rugs also greatly effect RFH.
Now, if I run the insert that heat absolutely takes over the heating of the same space no problem.

I do not have ceiling fans as I do not like them.

FWIW I did hire my own energy company to perform a blower door test and the results were not what I or the company expected to see. Areas we expected to see air leaking like a sieve were near zero. Other areas we didn't expect major loss were eye opening.

My first house design had a massive amount of glass. The HVAC guys told me I'd never be able to heat it so the plans were scraped. Too bad as the house had a really cool look. How much glass is in OP's house?

I guided a friend thru his RFH remodel and he used Warm Board and that works remarkably well. Very close to my own home but with a much faster response time.
 

kennyp2339

Minister of Fire
Feb 16, 2014
5,916
07462
Great advice on the thermostat location on the VC, I never would have thought of that as a potential problem. I'm definitely leaning toward the Morso 7110.
Check out woodstock soapstone woodstoves, the Morso 7110 seems a bit small to me
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
89,456
South Puget Sound, WA
Check out woodstock soapstone woodstoves, the Morso 7110 seems a bit small to me
If they were trying to heat a larger area 24/7 I would agree, but this is just a chill chaser for a 650 sq ft room.