New owner and Buck stove woes

[Stealthdude]

Hello all
New member but not new to burning wood.
We bought a new house and it had a buck stove model 19 wood burning insert. Good triple walled stainless liner with 6’ of chimney above the roof. It pulls good draft
2 year old cut and split wood

My old place had an all nighter stove that was amazing. I could have fire going in five minutes and stack it full of wood to last all night or 12-14 hours for the day.

This buck stove I have tried to get on board with. I called customer service and they suggested I blow out the primary supply. I did, and marginal if any improvement. Also I cleaned the chimney and got about a five gallon bucket of junk out.

“Houston we have a systemic problem”.

This Buck stove thing is miserable to light and keep it lit. Once it is lit it makes some heat but can never get the house above 72 inside. My
Old house would easily reach 80 no issue.
The same wood is being used, I moved it from one house to the other.

Just to mentally check myself I tried my old stove before the house sold. I had it to 80 degrees inside( from62) in 6 hours.

What gives? This Buck stove seems like it is the the undisputed world champion smoldering and creosote production machine. There are moments of primary flame but it mostly just smolders

Any help? I am about to make an Amish man rich ( open to suggestions) to make me a non EPA stove that works and heats like it should.


For reference, I am an engineer. I understand secondary combustion and can appreciate that. This blocker/ buffer plate seems to choke this stove down to death. I have burned wood for primary heat for 20 years. This stove baffles me how it is anything more than a toy.

Please help me if I am dillusional in my assessment

 

[bholler]

Hello all
New member but not new to burning wood.
We bought a new house and it had a buck stove model 19 wood burning insert. Good triple walled stainless liner with 6’ of chimney above the roof. It pulls good draft
2 year old cut and split wood

My old place had an all nighter stove that was amazing. I could have fire going in five minutes and stack it full of wood to last all night or 12-14 hours for the day.

This buck stove I have tried to get on board with. I called customer service and they suggested I blow out the primary supply. I did, and marginal if any improvement. Also I cleaned the chimney and got about a five gallon bucket of junk out.

“Houston we have a systemic problem”.

This Buck stove thing is miserable to light and keep it lit. Once it is lit it makes some heat but can never get the house above 72 inside. My
Old house would easily reach 80 no issue.
The same wood is being used, I moved it from one house to the other.

Just to mentally check myself I tried my old stove before the house sold. I had it to 80 degrees inside( from62) in 6 hours.

What gives? This Buck stove seems like it is the the undisputed world champion smoldering and creosote production machine. There are moments of primary flame but it mostly just smolders

Any help? I am about to make an Amish man rich ( open to suggestions) to make me a non EPA stove that works and heats like it should.


For reference, I am an engineer. I understand secondary combustion and can appreciate that. This blocker/ buffer plate seems to choke this stove down to death. I have burned wood for primary heat for 20 years. This stove baffles me how it is anything more than a toy.

Please help me if I am dillusional in my assessment

I have not heard of a model 19 can you post a pic? What moisture content is your wood at?

 

[Stealthdude]

Also, it burns well with the door cracked as expected. Once shut it burns ok for 40 seconds and then the oxygen is gone ( my perception).
How can this stove not have enough primary air going to it with it wide open and the air Inllet recently cleaned?
I am just so confused this is rocket science. Air, fuel, and then combustion with available draft and you have heat. I am under the assumption of it being low inlet air

I do not have a pyrometer in the stack it is all behind brick

Been moved for 6 weeks, only been home for 3-4 weeks. What an irritating event

 

[Stealthdude]

I am so sorry it is model 18

My old moisture meter broke my new one is on the way.

The wood is splitting on the ends. My educated guess is 18-20% based on historical analysis. No hissing or popping when it is on fire

My good review is there is very little ash that occurs. Like hardly any ash is left with this thing it is amazing. Otherwise I am left disappointed thus far. It may be user interface related

 

[tgumby4]

I just recently switched from a Fisher non epa to a hybrid epa. They are definitely totally different stoves. I had wood that seemed to burn good no hissing. Moisture meter read 25-35%. I switched to a different wood pile 15-20%. It made a huge difference. With the high rainfall the northeast received this past year seasoned wood is a rarity in my neck of the woods. My 20% moisture wood has been in my dad's woodshed for 3+ years and it's still reading 15-20%. I'm still learning after 20+ years of wood hearing myself.

 

[weatherguy]

You're an engineer, test the wood moisture, room temp, split and test in the middle, this surely sounds like not seasoned enough for a modern stove, they need drier wood than a fisher.

 

[bholler]

Yes sounds exactly like normal wet wood symptoms to me as well.

 

[Ludlow]

Moderately higher moisture wood should still burn if you crib the load and open the air up. Try that and if it still doesnt burn you have other problems. If it does burn then your wood isnt ready for normal operation as intended. You better keep a check on that chimney too for clogging up.

 

[Stealthdude]

Thanks for the good reality check guys ( and gals is applicable). I will check moisture again after splitting a peice. Amazon says it should be here soonish

Should this stove require sub 18% wood for desirable operation?

Ludlow good assessment. I have tried cribbing the load up and it can work. I get frustrated with the small box size so I can only fit 3 pieces to start with. That helps get it going ( like right now) but doesn’t help me get an overnight burn ability because of reduced box size.

Sorry to be in that frustrated condition, this is one thing I really enjoy and it is just kind of not working. Kind of a let down for that new to me house feel is all ( and that burning sensation of “ I should have moved my old stove”)

 

[weatherguy]

Sub 20% should be fine.

 

[kennyp2339]

Good triple walled stainless liner with 6’ of chimney above the roof. It pulls good draft

How long is the chimney from stove collar to cap? Is the liner insulated? What kind of cap do you have? how is the stove connected to the chimney, is there a clean out or is the liner directly connected to the stove collar?

Also I cleaned the chimney and got about a five gallon bucket of junk out.

Build up occurs with low flue gases that condense and form creosote, either the fire isn't getting hot enough because the wood fuel is wet or you have an issue with rapid cool down in the stack, if there is a clean out connection make sure the door or cap is fully on it and its sealed.
Buck 18 insert - doesn't have a big fire box @ 1.3cu ft, I'd try splitting smaller pieces to get a ash / coal bed going so the firebox can stay hotter, I was reading the manual on this and they don't list a minimum chimney height (thinking >15ft) but they do list a maximum height of 20ft from collar to cap, also the air control must be pulled all the way out for full air. https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/feab5fd5-59f3-4766-9ab0-8865ab9d825f/downloads/1blqepjvk_934092.pdf

 

[edyit]

Also, it burns well with the door cracked as expected. Once shut it burns ok for 40 seconds

this sounds exactly like wood not seasoned enough

 

[xman23]

So this is your wood, and it's seasoned a few years and not punkey wet wood, stored uncovered? So it's wood or the draft. What the chimney like.

 

[Stealthdude]

It is hardwood mostly oak, red elm, and hickory. Cut and split and stored under tin roof for two years I put 2x4 runners underneath and alternated the stacking orientation.

The new place I need to build an addition for a permanent wood storage solution but for now it is off the ground and stacked and a tarp run off protects it from rain

 

[Stealthdude]

My new moisture meter should be here soon I will check that. Maybe I am used to a higher level of moisture being ok?

Any additional tips for making sure it dries more efficiently or thoroughly?

 

[bholler]

What is the chimney? What type and how high?

 

[Stealthdude]

Chimney is triple walled stainless liner.

I don’t know the exact height but it sticks above roof line by about 6’.
I’m guessing 30-35’ total

 

[Woody Stover]

This sounds like a stove or chimney problem to me, not a wood problem. Does the triple-wall chimney go straight up through the ceiling, then the roof? You say the chimney "pulls good draft." So the fire is roaring with the door open, but dies when you close the door?
When you cleaned the chimney, did you do it from on the roof, and you cleaned the screen on the chimney cap as well? The fact that you got a 5-gal. bucket of creosote out of the chimney indicates that something isn't right, but maybe just wet wood burned by previous owner.

is miserable to light and keep it lit....There are moments of primary flame but it mostly just smolders.....This blocker/ buffer plate seems to choke this stove down to death.

Here's your manual: https://buckstove.com/wood-stove-manuals

What are you referring to here, the baffle plate above the burn tubes? I would check the baffle plate and the insulation..something may be blocking the air flow as it exits the stove, wadded-up insulation maybe?

it burns well with the door cracked as expected. Once shut it burns ok for 40 seconds and then the oxygen is gone ( my perception).
How can this stove not have enough primary air going to it with it wide open and the air Inllet recently cleaned?.... I am under the assumption of it being low inlet air

I see the #28 here is called "air wash screen," but I don't see the arrow pointing to it on the diagram. If it's like the Buck 91, it's not a screen, but a heavy iron channel with holes in it. Worth taking a look at, though. If you had a "snaky-cam" you could feed it into every air opening and have a look, trying to trace back the air passage. I would check the air tubes as well, and make sure there's nothing blocking the secondary air.
Is there a separate "shot gun air" control below the door (#25?) When you operate it with the door closed, does it change the intensity of the fire?
Have you ever seen secondary flame coming off the air tubes?

 

[Stealthdude]

Hi Woody.
Yep up through the ceiling directly off the top and through the roof. It is kind of a great room area where it is located

Correct I can have it producing great flames with the door open and the close it and it just kind trickles down to a smolder typically ( right now it is kind of burning efficiently). The damper is wide open right now

When I cleaned the chimney is was from the bottom up. I stopped many times to let the goop come down. Got almost a five gallon bucket worth.

I removed the sceeen from the top and intend to replace it. It has stainless cap but the screen was almost clogged shut because it was so fine of a mesh


Yep baffle plate. That’s what I meant to say. I suspect that is the initial startup issue. It just takes a minute to establish draft with that plate in place? I thought about cutting a small port the back so it can breathe through there for start up potentially? Or remove it entirely.

Yes the primary air is a screen type opening. I wore brushed it clean and the blew an air compressor from outlet to inlet to try and clean it. Moderate to minimally helpful. I was so hopeful that was the fix.

I may try snaking it with some wire to ensure no
Hard particles or obstructions

I don’t follow with the shot gun air comment? It has one damper control that does the primary and secondary air control. It feeds under the stover? Is that what you meant ?

I have seen secondary flames but typically only when the door is cracked.

 

[kennyp2339]

is this on legs or pedestal? And for the record we are now talking about a free standing wood stove and not a insert that goes into a fire place?

 

[jetsam]

Your first post screams 'wet wood', but you also said there's no hissing. Still, you are transitioning from pre-EPA stoves to modern stoves, which is sometimes frustrating (I should know). From your subsequent posts I would say that wet wood is maybe not the only problem, perhaps.

I'm not at all familiar with your stove or I could be more helpful. Most EPA stoves do work as they should, and I would never go back to the old ones.

Why don't you grab a 2x4 out of the garage and do a very small fire with dry dimensional lumber? That will give you some guidance as to whether you have an airflow problem (which could be a problem with the stove, the flue, or operation), or a fuel problem.

Also, ditch the mesh on the cap ASAP. After one smoldery fire, you are doomed to all smoldery fires. Just remove it- you can put it back on this spring when you quit burning.

 

[jatoxico]

Stealthdude it would be good to get some baseline info on the install and a couple pics of the stove and chimney may be useful. Couple thoughts offhand you can look at while waiting for the moisture meter.

• Can you pull the surround and see if the damper area is insulated. You may be losing heat up the chimney. If the chimney is exterior a lot of heat may be going to the great outdoors.
• I see this unit is equipped with a "top firebox blanket". Be sure this is positioned correctly and not obstructing the vent. If you didn't do it when you swept I would clean out the entire area around the baffle and reset that blanket. Some folks discard them which seriously inhibits secondary burn so hopefully no one threw it out.
  
• Put some lumber scraps in and once the fire is burning see if the air control is working. Opened up the fire should respond and build up and should slow when you shut it down. Sometimes these can get disconnected and non-functional.

 

[Woody Stover]

Correct I can have it producing great flames with the door open and the close it and it just kind trickles down to a smolder typically ( right now it is kind of burning efficiently). The damper is wide open right now

With that tall a chimney, I'd think the fire would be roaring with the air wide open. When I "cruised" the 91 after it was up to temp, I had the air slider barely open, about 1/8-1/4". That was on a 21' liner. Different stove, I know, but still...
Does the fire roar with the door open? If not, there's a chimney restriction or a stove air flow restriction between the fire box and the flue exit in the area above the baffle. Can you feel up there, or see the area above the baffle with a light and mirror?

I removed the sceeen from the top and intend to replace it. It has stainless cap but the screen was almost clogged shut because it was so fine of a mesh

My "screen" has big enough gaps that a June bug could easily get through..

I thought about cutting a small port the back so it can breathe through there for start up potentially? Or remove it entirely.

No, don't do that, the stove is designed to run with that stuff as it came from the factory. You'll need to find the reason that it's not functioning as it should.
[/QUOTE]Yes the primary air is a screen type opening. I wore brushed it clean and the blew an air compressor from outlet to inlet to try and clean it.[/QUOTE]As mentioned by jatoxico, a buttload of pics would be nice.
Yes, I guess mine had a screen in front of the air channel..

I don’t follow with the shot gun air comment? It has one damper control that does the primary and secondary air control. It feeds under the stove? Is that what you meant ?

Well, the 91 has two sliders, a right slider which feeds the air wash at the top of the window and another channel further back in the top of the fire box. It also had a left slider for shot gun air, which entered the box in the center, below the door. Your stove controls both with one lever, apparently. Is there a hump right inside the door opening, at the bottom, where air enters? It may have ash piled up on it. Your stove diagram which I posted above shows #25 "shot gun air box," if you click it to enlarge the diagram.

I have seen secondary flames but typically only when the door is cracked.

The secondary flames should be ignited by the air coming out of the tubes. I doubt you would see them with the door open. Watch what happens at about 15 seconds into this video:

 

[kennyp2339]

I ask my questions because I read your manual, the stove maker says its a contraindication to have a chimney height greater than 20ft for this stove.
Also if its a pedestal mount then it need a oak (perhaps because the air flow is restricted on pedestal mounts)

 

[bholler]

Hi Woody.
Yep up through the ceiling directly off the top and through the roof. It is kind of a great room area where it is located

Correct I can have it producing great flames with the door open and the close it and it just kind trickles down to a smolder typically ( right now it is kind of burning efficiently). The damper is wide open right now

When I cleaned the chimney is was from the bottom up. I stopped many times to let the goop come down. Got almost a five gallon bucket worth.

I removed the sceeen from the top and intend to replace it. It has stainless cap but the screen was almost clogged shut because it was so fine of a mesh


Yep baffle plate. That’s what I meant to say. I suspect that is the initial startup issue. It just takes a minute to establish draft with that plate in place? I thought about cutting a small port the back so it can breathe through there for start up potentially? Or remove it entirely.

Yes the primary air is a screen type opening. I wore brushed it clean and the blew an air compressor from outlet to inlet to try and clean it. Moderate to minimally helpful. I was so hopeful that was the fix.

I may try snaking it with some wire to ensure no
Hard particles or obstructions

I don’t follow with the shot gun air comment? It has one damper control that does the primary and secondary air control. It feeds under the stover? Is that what you meant ?

I have seen secondary flames but typically only when the door is cracked.

Is this insert in a prefab fireplace? If so is it just running through the old prefab chimney or was there a new liner run through the old chimney?