New PH CAT

[Berner]

Going on my fourth year of PH burning. Over the summer I replaced the CAT after noticing some warping with the old CAT.

Wowza what a difference. Established a shoulder season burn today with a mixed load of spruce and oak. Half of the firebox full and my stovetop temp reached 625! House is up to 78 and had to open a window for some relief.

Can't wait to let the CAT do its thing come real burning season.

 

[Squisher]

I'm happy for you. But four years and replacing the cat? What are they worth?

 

[webby3650]

That's a short life for a cat! Isn't there a warranty of some sort?

Keep in mind that when the cat is new it's overly active, it will settle down after a few fires.

 

[begreen]

Yes, 3 seasons of actual use is much too short.

 

[Woody Stover]

Sounds like he may have had a diesel-foil cat....now he's got DuraFoil. Not sure if they well last longer than a diesel or ceramic. It seems the cats start dropping in output after a few years. That may be somewhat reversible with the distilled water-distilled vinegar wash. I haven't got enough mileage under my belt with cat performance since my conversion to 'dry-wood religion,' so the jury is still out for me. My in-laws have cats that I've put in but I don't run their stoves much so it's hard to judge how the cats change over time, like I can with my own stoves.

 

[begreen]

Going on my fourth year of PH burning. Over the summer I replaced the CAT after noticing some warping with the old CAT.

How much wood do you estimate was burned up to the cat replacement?

 

[heavy hammer]

What kind of life expectancy should you expect to get out of a cat before replacement. I'm new to using a cat so any info on longevity and better operation would be appreciated. From what I've read try to keep the flames out of the cat and burn good seasoned clean wood. Any other pointers?

 

[Rearscreen]

I'd like to know what type of maintenance you did over the season and what intervals just to compare what I do with my PH.

 

[Berner]

Yes I agree three seasons seemed really short for its lifespan. I've burned a total of seven cords which makes its lifespan seem even shorter. I would clean it by dabbing it with a paint brush and hand cupping my shopvac per Jamie at Woodstock's recommendation.

I would do this cleaning about every cord that went through the stove.

The reason why I replaced it was the top of the CAT was warped. If I dig I can find a picture. I think it's even posted on this website somewhere. When I called Woodstock and showed them a picture they sent a new CAT for free. Once again their customer service is phenomenal.

I would love to hear if other people have had their CATs warp and what the cause of it was.

 

[JA600L]

Typically catalytic converters don't commit suicide. They get murdered. This is caused by poisoning, overheating, or being handled incorrectly. I'm sure as time goes on they lose some effectiveness. However, proper operation should give a long service life . Sometimes people assume poor draft or wet wood symptoms mean the catalyst has failed.

 

[Berner]

Typically catalytic converters don't commit suicide. They get murdered. This is caused by poisoning, overheating, or being handled incorrectly. I'm sure as time goes on they lose some effectiveness. However, proper operation should give a long service life . Sometimes people assume poor draft or wet wood symptoms mean the catalyst has failed.

I'm into my three year plan so I don't think wet wood is the problem. Usually I have pretty good draft with a 17foot chimney. I actually thought that CAT performance was fine I just didn't like that it was warped. Now with a brand new one I'm amazed at how it performs.

How do you think my CAT was murdered?

 

[Squisher]

How did it warp you think?

I've been reading in other threads that cats are often 'hyperactive' when brand new.

 

[Rearscreen]

I'm starting my 3rd season. Early last year when I was in Saudi Arabia, my girlfriend informed me that she totally mucked up the cat. Upon arrival back to the good 'ol US of A I cleaned it with the vinegar and she ran like a top. I clean it maybe every 6 weeks to 2 months with the reverse light vac blow and paint brush. Then I look through the honey combs to see if it's clear. I have a new spare in the closet just in case...Last week was at Woodstock and heard a story of someone firing the PH up without the cat. Let's just say, it wasn't a good thing to do.

 

[JA600L]

I'm into my three year plan so I don't think wet wood is the problem. Usually I have pretty good draft with a 17foot chimney. I actually thought that CAT performance was fine I just didn't like that it was warped. Now with a brand new one I'm amazed at how it performs.

How do you think my CAT was murdered?

I don't think your cat was murdered. Just a general statement about cats. I work in the auto and diesel industry. Typically when a cat fails it is poisoned by oil consumption, leaking injector, etc. They don't typically fail under normal circumstances.

 

[Squisher]

All cats fail eventually. Wouldn't you agree?

 

[Rearscreen]

Of course like anything else (including ourselves) failure is an option. Actually a certainty. But, the benefits of this little device for my viewing and heating pleasure not to mention the reduction in wood hauling far outweighs it's cost or replacement intervals.

 

[Squisher]

It's impressive technology without a doubt. Id sure like to try one out one day.

 

[heavy hammer]

How does a cat get warped? Do you need to clean the cat regularly, and what other operating concerns is there for a cat stove.

 

[Woody Stover]

How did it warp you think?
I've been reading in other threads that cats are often 'hyperactive' when brand new.

I'm pretty sure he had a diesel-foil cat. I've had them warp out of flat in my in-laws' Fireviews. I didn't worry about it, just made sure they were sealed into the cat frame where smoke couldn't get around them, and they still worked OK. The newer DuraFoil design is much more stable structurally. And yes, he's seeing a super-active cat now, it will settle in after several burns. But they will still light off quick and burn well.

 

[Woody Stover]

How does a cat get warped? Do you need to clean the cat regularly, and what other operating concerns is there for a cat stove.

I think yours is a ceramic cat; It won't warp. Your manual doesn't say anything about cleaning the cat, but it looks like you could remove the flame shield and gently brush the front the cat to remove a build-up of fly ash if you see it (without removing the cat, otherwise you will have to replace the interam gasket.) Gently brush the front of the cat with a 'chip brush,' then gently blow on the front of the cat to remove the dust. No compressed air, or you can blow the catalyst material off the substrate! Page 14 has some cat info like "don't overfire" and "avoid flame inpingement."
If after a few years your cat drops noticeably in performance, you can try the distilled vinegar/distilled water bath.
(broken link removed to http://www.condar.com/combustorcleaningmanual.pdf)

 

[toddnic]

You can also "breathe new life" into a cat by following the instructions on the Woodstock website. It really works well.....

 

[heavy hammer]

Thanks Woody Stover that is all the info I could find. I will just try to do those recommended practices. I will just keep an eye on the performance of the cat over the future years.

 

[begreen]

I would expect at least 6 yrs of consistent performance

I'm into my three year plan so I don't think wet wood is the problem. Usually I have pretty good draft with a 17foot chimney. I actually thought that CAT performance was fine I just didn't like that it was warped. Now with a brand new one I'm amazed at how it performs.

How do you think my CAT was murdered?

Wondering if the cat was warped enough to allow some smoke to bypass it? That would reduce performance even though the cat was still active.

 

[Woody Stover]

Wondering if the cat was warped enough to allow some smoke to bypass it? That would reduce performance even though the cat was still active.

Good catch! The old diesel-foil cats would warp longitudinally, as well as shrivel slightly, so that they didn't fit well in the Woodstocks' two-piece cast iron cat frame. I was able to flatten them somewhat, then wrap with enough interam gasket to prevent leaking. I never called in the warranty on one, just patched 'em together and got 'em to work. With an open gap, smoke would blow right around the edges. If you went out to look at your stack, you might well assume that the cat was shot. Not sure how the cat is set up on the PH, if @Berner may have had a cast cat frame in his stove. The new DuraFoil cats don't use the frame or interam gasket. They have two tab ears with bolt holes, and you just bolt the cat in using the old shipping bolts that kept the ceramic cats from breaking in transit (in the Fireview and Keystone.)

 

[Berner]

The old CAT warped enough for smoke to run through. I wrapped it with rope gasket, still got light off and the stack was clear. I mentioned it to Woodstock in discussions about a new liner. Their response was we will send you a new one.

The new CAT has the tab ears but I don't remember the bolt holes. I will pull it apart sometime soon and take a picture.