New stove recommendation

[raybonz]

I started compiling a list of ember protection stoves and it's by no means complete but this is what I have gathered so far.. We have used our T-5 all winter and it has been great so far..

All Pacific Energy Alderlea stoves
All Pacific Energy models
Lopi Endeavor
Lopi Revere
Blaze King Chinook
Blaze King Princess
Hampton H200 (unsure, manual gives conflicting information)
Regency CS1200
Jotul F100
Jotul Oslo 500
Jotul Rangely
Hearthstone Bari, Tula and Mansfield
Vermont Castings Encore (with bottom heatshield)
All Enviro freestanding stoves

Ray

 

[Ashful]

Wow! Thanks, Ray!

 

[MasterMech]

If you like/want a top-loader the Jotul F50 TL Rangeley has been a great stove for us, albeit a bit overpowered for my house!

My dad has an old VC Defiant sitting in a fireplace like yours. His place was a 1700's stage coach inn originally.

 

[Ashful]

I started compiling a list of ember protection stoves and it's by no means complete but this is what I have gathered so far..

Jotul Oslo 500

Ray

Looks like the Jotul 500 Oslo requires min. 18" non-combustable floor in front, for 50" total non- combustable depth. Am I missing something?

If you like/want a top-loader the Jotul F50 TL Rangeley has been a great stove for us, albeit a bit overpowered for my house!

Definitely one we're considering, but also worried it's too big for our 800 sq.ft. space.

 

[MasterMech]

Mine's in a 12x20 Den that opens up into my living room, and two tiny bedrooms. It keeps the entire 1200sq ft house in the mid to high 70's effortlessly and will easily run into the 80's if you don't space out the reloads. It's often about 80 in the den so it's not so hot as to want to leave the room. I can get it to run at 400-450 stovetop without too much fuss. Keeps a pretty even keel that way.

 

[Ashful]

Sounds like we have somewhat similar spaces, although yours is just a bit bigger. We're at 1050 sq.ft. exterior dims, 850 sq.ft. interior dims, and 200 sq.ft. for the room with the stove. We have two floors above and a cool basement below to help draw off a little heat, but who doesn't?

If the f50 is a little large for you, it likely will be even more oversized for us. What's your insulation / window situation, for comparison?

Thanks!

 

[begreen]

We have two floors above and a cool basement below to help draw off a little heat, but who doesn't?

In a 5000 sq ft total stone house, very few.

 

[Ashful]

Just meant that the square footage numbers from the stove manufacturers likely include the assumption of typical basement and second floor / attic losses.

 

[begreen]

While some specs are somewhat accurate, others are wildly optimistic. It's really a hard thing to pin down narrowly because there are so many factors affecting the usable heat. Climate, location, house design, insulation, fuel quality, stove design, draft, all can dramatically affect the heating ability of the stove. And that is excluding the most important factor, the fool behind the fuel.

 

[begreen]

Interesting story on that stove. That fireplace was part of the original summer kitchen, once a separate structure from the house. The previous owners made an addition to the house, which encompased that old fireplace. Upon completion of the project, the code enforcement officer would not permit them to use the fireplace, as it did not meet modern code, even though it had been used without incident almost continuously over 220 years. In any case, their work-around was to install the stove, which satisfied code enforcement.

Here is a photo with the doors open:
View attachment 64770

I measured the clearances, and the closest spot on the lintel is 25" from the front top edge of the stove. The closest door jamb is 19" from the front corner of the stove. The owner's manual for this stove provides many clearance guidelines, most being 21" perpendicular off the sides, but none off the front corners. I can say we used it all winter, and never saw the wood get too warm, and the old paint on these doors and lintel shows no signs of ever being heated. This firebox is significantly larger than the one at the other end of the house, where we're looking to do the new install.

begreen: I checked out the Jotul F55 at the local dealer. I was not a big fan of the more contemporary appearance, but of the stoves they had on their showroom floor, it was the only high efficiency toploader in that size class. It looked like a good stove. I still need to check out the others on your list.

Thanks!

That's a spectacular setting for the stove. It looks great. The fireplace looks big enough to park a MiniCooper in. This installation is fairly unique so it doesn't surprise me that it's difficult to document. Take a look at the specs for the F12's replacement, the F600. They get more specific there. Though it would be up to the local authority to decide whether this is to be considered a fireplace or alcove installation. How does top-loading work out for you in this space? Do you use a fan to persuade heat out of the fireplace?

When the Jotul Rangeley first came out I had the same reaction and suggested they offer it with the traditional Jotul arched glass muntins as an option. Take a look at a PE T5 classic in black enamel for comparison. I think you will find it more attractive. The Enviro Boston is also very good looking.

(broken link removed to http://www.pacificenergy.net/alderlea/t5classic.php)
http://www.enviro.com/fireplace-products/wood/freestanding-fireplace.html#b1700

 

[Ashful]

...that is excluding the most important factor, the fool behind the fuel.

Hence my handle, Joful (Yo-Fool)! The more I read here, the more I realize how much I need to learn.

How does top-loading work out for you in this space? Do you use a fan to persuade heat out of the fireplace?

The top loading actually works well, because the lintel is so high on that fireplace. Not being an experienced stover, I don't have anything to compare it to, but I'm happy with that aspect of this old stove.

I think a fan would help, as there is a lot of stalled heat in the fireplace, but we do not have one on that old stove. We do have two ceiling fans in that room, but should probably experiment with a window fan on the floor to move heat around. Eventually, the heat makes its way out of the fireplace and into the room, but it's by no means the most efficient setup, particularly for getting a cold room up to temperature.

When the Jotul Rangeley first came out I had the same reaction and suggested they offer it with the traditional Jotul arched glass muntins as an option. Take a look at a PE T5 classic in black enamel for comparison. I think you will find it more attractive.

I just checked out both of these stoves, and they are definitely more toward our taste than the Rangely. I'm still worried about size, though. You really don't think that's too much stove for 870 square feet interior? I had sort of set my head on something closer to 2.0 cubic feet, based on manufacturer's sizing suggestions, but have no experience to fall back on.

I'm not sure how much I'll lose in the stone walls and by burying the stove in a fireplace, but I did assume I'd better off going a little small than too big. My primary goal is reducing the oil bill, and even if the boiler has to pull back-up duty to the woodstove the coldest 5 - 6 days of the year, that might be less frustrating than dealing with an oversized stove the rest of the winter.

Other factor is the wife. An undersized stove that's easy to manage will get used even when I'm not home, and can always be pulled, sold, and replaced with something a little bigger down the road, if needed. A too-big stove that's difficult to control or frightens her by running away (or whuffing when throttled down too hard) might put the kiabosh on the whole works in no time flat.

Thanks!

 

[begreen]

I would either put a fan blowing cooler room air into the fireplace, or at least hang a small fan behind the stove top, blowing outward.

The Alderlea T5 is 2 cu ft. And as suggested earlier, I don't think it would overheat the space. Also note that the Enviro Boston comes in two sizes. The Boston 1200 is 1.85 cu ft.

 

[Ashful]

I started compiling a list of ember protection stoves and it's by no means complete but this is what I have gathered so far.. We have used our T-5 all winter and it has been great so far..

All Pacific Energy Alderlea stoves
All Pacific Energy models
Lopi Endeavor
Lopi Revere
Blaze King Chinook
Blaze King Princess
Hampton H200 (unsure, manual gives conflicting information)
Regency CS1200
Jotul F100
Jotul Oslo 500
Jotul Rangely
Hearthstone Bari, Tula and Mansfield
Vermont Castings Encore (with bottom heatshield)
All Enviro freestanding stoves

Ray

Getting back to this thread after a while. Lots of good info, particularly the suggestions from begreen and BrowningBAR, all of which I'm looking into now.

I'm wondering what is meant by the "ember protection stoves" above. Seems to imply that the hearth extension requires only ember protection, and not a particular R-value. Good for me, as I have near zero hearth extension now, and will likely be trying to tear up 3/4" wood flooring and sandwiching my hearth extension into that height. However, I have checked the manuals on one or two of these stoves, and seen no mention of them requiring only ember protection, or any particular R-value for the hearth or extension. Can someone educate me?

 

[begreen]

That's correct. Ember protection is sometimes just listed as a non-combustible surface. If no R value is listed, it is probably an ember protection only hearth.

 

[Ashful]

Cool. So far, of the stoves I've checked, I really like the 500 Oslo and the Alderlea T5 Classic. They both have a more classic cast iron exterior, although the enamel finish on the T5 Classic concerns me. They just seem to chip so easily. Haven't made it thru the whole list just yet, though.

 

[firefighterjake]

Cool. So far, of the stoves I've checked, I really like the 500 Oslo and the Alderlea T5 Classic. They both have a more classic cast iron exterior, although the enamel finish on the T5 Classic concerns me. They just seem to chip so easily. Haven't made it thru the whole list just yet, though.

Both stoves you mentioned get very good reviews here . . . speaking of the Oslo . . . the whole thing is pretty much a cast iron stove, not just the exterior. The blue black paint which looks like enamel is regarded as very tough stuff . . . it's the one thing I kind of wish I had done differently with my Oslo -- ponied up the extra money for the better looking finish vs. going with the matte black paint.

 

[Ashful]

. . . speaking of the Oslo . . . The blue black paint which looks like enamel is regarded as very tough stuff . . .

Yep. I have the blue/black enamel on my Jotul Firelight, and it is pretty tough. My enamel concern was aimed more at the T5 Classic, which is only available in high gloss enamels. I had a Jotul sales rep tell me to even avoid their own high gloss enamels, unless I liked looking at chips. They agreed the blue/black enamel is much tougher, and a good compromise in durability between the matte and gloss enamels.

It's interesting to note the Oslo 500 is only 16" deep, but requires a 50.5" deep hearth. The larger T5 classic is 28" deep, but only requires a 40" deep hearth. I'm sure I just need to look at the numbers closer to determine why that may be, but it doesn't seem to make sense on the surface.

Depth is most critical to me, because my fireplace is only 27" deep, with no hearth extension. With an opening of 56" wide by 60" high, we have all the room in the world for a big stove, but we're constrained on depth. The original hearth is level / flush with the floor. The working plan at the moment is to tear up some of the 230 year old heart pine flooring (almost makes me weep!) to build a hearth extension, staying level with the floor. This flooring is ~3/4" thick, attached directly to wood beams (trees with one flattened side) below, so this really only gives me the option of ember protection in the area of the forward hearth extension, no real high R-value.

 

[begreen]

The T5 Alderlea (not the classic) is the same stove with satin black paint that will not chip. This is what we have on our T6 and it is doing fine heading into its fourth season. Agreed with the choice of blue-black enamel on the Oslo. Love that finish.

The hearth extension need to be strong, especially with stove weight on it. Tile or stone veneer needs a rigid, solid backing. If the tile is 1/4" thick and it is applied to 1/2" cement board on 3/4" plywood that would be 1.5". I suppose that the beams could be notched for a flush fit. If the stove requires ember only hearth protection, I'm thinking sheet metal would suffice. Perhaps it could be powder coated black? Or go with a raised hearth that has a nice beveled trim surround to tie it in.

 

[Ashful]

The T5 Alderlea (not the classic) is the same stove with satin black paint that will not chip.

Cool! Will have to check that out.

The hearth extension need to be strong, especially with stove weight on it... If the stove requires ember only hearth protection, I'm thinking sheet metal would suffice. Perhaps it could be powder coated black? Or go with a raised hearth that has a nice beveled trim surround to tie it in.

The idea is to keep the stove itself back in the firebox, on the solid masonry firebox floor. This will allow us to close the doors when the stove is not in use, avoid the tripping hazard of a raised hearth extension, and not have to cut our fireplace doors. That is sort of pushing us away from the Alderlea, which is much deeper than the Oslo.

I like the metal idea! Having worked with a local foundry, I could even have a large plate or series of smaller plates cast for the extension. Mounted on an isulator like Micore, it might do well. Sheet metal would work, but would also require some flat backing, as it would telegraph every bump in the old wood flooring if applied directly. I really like this idea, as I was indeed having trouble figuring how to do any masonry hearth extension in the height provided.

 

[begreen]

Micore will still need a rigid backing like 3/4" plywood over the floor joists. It has no strength of it's own. You can break a chunk off with your hands.

 

[Ashful]

Hmm.... might mean having to notch those joists after all. In my case, the "joists" are 12" diameter tree trunks, with a flat on the side to which the flooring is attached. There are two running under the area to be occupied by the hearth extension.

To make matters more tricky, the previous owner finished the basement, installing a hand-trowled ceiling between each pair of joists, such that the majority of the joists remain exposed in the ceiling below. Doesn't leave much room to work with / won't know where I stand until I start pulling up floor.

 

[BrowningBAR]

In my case, the "joists" are 12" diameter tree trunks, with a flat on the side to which the flooring is attached. There are two running under the area to be occupied by the hearth extension.

Sounds like my living room.

 

[begreen]

Hmm. Sounds like you want a shallow, front-loading, 2 cu ft stove that looks good. That leads me to the Hearthstone Shelburne. It's only 21" deep and has a blower option. The only caveat is that it needs an R =.8 protection. Given the unique issues with the original floor I would put in proper protection on the existing floor and wrap the edge with a nice beveled curb.

 

[Ashful]

Can someone point me to where Jotul publishes the firebox sizes (in cubic feet) of their stoves? I cannot find any listing of firebox dimensions in any of their literature.

Thanks!

 

[begreen]

Good luck. We've had to measure and compare here. Rough estimate, F3CB = 1.1 cu ft, F400= 1.7 cu ft, F500 = 2.2 cu ft, F600 = 3.0 cu ft.