NEW TO ME STOVE INSTALL, FRUSTRATIONS & PICS

[THEMAN]

A few weeks ago I picked up a Buck 91 Bay from my chimney sweep guy for $300.00. I have been trying to figure out how to install it while saving the existing damper. I decided to go with a direct connect for now due to cost. I ordered an offset box to move the opening to the side as to clear the damper handle along with 7" oval to round flex pipe. The stove has a 8" flue but there is no way I was going to be able to ovalize an 8" pipe enough to fit through the 5" damper. So instead of choking the stove down with a 6" I opted to go with a 7" pipe. The pipe arrived today and that's were the excitement ended. The pipe ended up not fitting through the damper as originally planned and some tugging, pushing and persuading later I got it to fit through the damper. At least to the point that it hit the back of the chimney, this is where it all came to a stand still. Trying to get the pipe to turn up was just not going to happen so I tried to push it up while my wife tugged, pushed and persuaded it up the damper and then I noticed the hole. :ahhh: Had to get it out to see if I could some how fix it but it only started to unravel like the line on a spinning reel on a long cast. Guess I should have gone with the 6" it would have made it through the damper easier and perhaps made the upturn easier. That retrospect 20/20 thing really sucks! And its expensive. So cut the unraveling pipe and was able to save 3 feet of it. I again tugged, pushed and persuaded it up the damper to the point where the oval meets the round and were done. No more movement allowed. I now have too much round sticking down and with the addition of the offset box and reducer I need to somehow reduce the amount of pipe that is hanging down. I figure it unravels nice and easily so I was going to try and unravel it enough to fit the offset box under it and secure it to the unraveled pipe. This should be interesting considering that the stove weighs 575lbs and I do not have very much wiggle room. I do not want to start the unraveling until I get the stove in place with the offset box so that I can see just how much I need to unravel. I see a lot of heavy moving in my future. In any event here are some pics of the current attempt at install and ruining 5 feet of flex that was too big. I will post more pics of the process as well as pics of the stove, and hopefully some of the first fire. I hope there will be a fire and not just a smoke storm due to a short direct connect, but only time will tell. If anyone has some 6" round to oval sections laying around I would be glad to take it off your hands. haha.

 

[THEMAN]

I ran out of space to attach these pics so here they are. Also the pic of the pipe sticking down is not the amount of pipe that I had left but the amount of pipe that still needed to go up the damper when it got stuck and torn. These pics are of the pipe going through the damper and the left over unraveled pipe that was and expensive casualty.

 

[Wet1]

Why in the world didn't you cut or break out the damper????????????????????????????????????????????

 

[afblue]

Why in the world didn't you cut or break out the damper????????????????????????????????????????????

He is trying to save the damper as if someone was ever to build a normal fire in the fireplace ever again.

OP: Sorry for your troubles man, and you dont want to hear this, but I got my Quadrafire 5100i installed yesterday, they cut my damper, sweeped the chimney and had the fireplace ready to fire minus the surround in less than 2 hrs. But I also paid $800 just for the install so you are still saving a bunch of cash compared to me with a bit of a headache.

The honest truth man, by counting your bricks on your hearth you have less that 16" plus carpet after that. I would cut that damper in a heart beat because that fireplace should never be used as original configuration ever again.

 

[Jotulf3cb]

Why in the world didn't you cut or break out the damper????????????????????????????????????????????

He is trying to save the damper as if someone was ever to build a normal fire in the fireplace ever again.

OP: Sorry for your troubles man, and you dont want to hear this, but I got my Quadrafire 5100i installed yesterday, they cut my damper, sweeped the chimney and had the fireplace ready to fire minus the surround in less than 2 hrs. But I also paid $800 just for the install so you are still saving a bunch of cash compared to me with a bit of a headache.

The honest truth man, by counting your bricks on your hearth you have less that 16" plus carpet after that. I would cut that damper in a heart beat because that fireplace should never be used as original configuration ever again.

I SECOND THAT ......... What an unsafe setup for a standard fireplace!!

 

[mellow]

You think this is fun, just wait till you have to pull it all out to sweep that direct connect pipe. Getting that cleaned from the top is not going to be without its share of expletives spoken.

 

[Jags]

Get that damper out of there. After you fire up the Buck, you'll never go back to an open fire.

 

[Valhalla]

Consider also a proper hearth extension of the brick.

Do the job completely and properly, no short cuts, as you
will appreciate it more later on.

Take no short cuts on safety and clearances.

 

[mellow]

I just noticed the nipple on the lower right of the fireplace, was a gas insert put in there at some point and time? Someone that knows the codes better than me should chime in, but I thought that had to be removed before doing a wood stove insert install?

 

[afblue]

I just noticed the nipple on the lower right of the fireplace, was a gas insert put in there at some point and time? Someone that knows the codes better than me should chime in, but I thought that had to be removed before doing a wood stove insert install?

Good call, Code or not heating the end of an active gas line would be a huge NO NO in my book, whats worse if there is a shut off valve on the other side of that brick, you have trapped gas that is going to expand inside the pipe, thats even worse!!

 

[sandie]

To the man who is paying $800 for the install YOU got away cheap, I need to have the damper removed and hook up the Resolute lll and it is going to cost $1700 but it includes the stone looking thing the stove will set on(on the floor) and it is 48"x48" and very nice looking. But for $1700 it should be right?

 

[golfandwoodnut]

Sandle,
Sounds high to me, I got mine done for $800 also. The pad cannot cost that much. I also agree about the gas line, we cut mine and capped it in the basement. Easy to do with a sawzall or cutting tool, just besure it is shut off before you cut it. We also cut out my damper, I am never going back and doubt anyone else will.

 

[THEMAN]

Ok here it is. I do not plan on staying in this house. I have grown very tired of California and its ridiculous laws and restrictions. They just pass a bill that we can no longer buy big screen TV's, not to mention the weapon bans. So when I move I want to be able to leave the fireplace as it was, functional. I do not want to have to deal with the liability of the fire place being altered and have to deal with CA building code when I want to sell the house. I have the screen and glass door cover for the fireplace that will go back on when we decide to move. These glass doors prevented any type of fire all the time we used an open fire place, but I agree that the hearth is too small. The hearth is in fact only 16" from firebox opening to front brick. The Buck 91 requires a 24" hearth, not to mention the Buck sticks out 10" onto the hearth so that leaves me 18" short. I was going to build a hearth extension to lay in front of the brick without having to take out the carpet but have decided to just rip out the carpet and lay some 1/2in split brick in front. House is on a slab so don't really have to worry about R rating as I would have if I had built an extension to lay over carpet. I know and understand that it will be a pain in the A$$ to clean the chimney, I have accepted that fact that I will have to remove the stove to do so. I am short on money at the time and a direct connect is all I could afford to do. I plan on fully lining the chimney in a few months So this is good experience in finding out the troubles of getting past the damper without ruining a full length of liner. 7" oval liner will not pass through the damper, check! Next up perhaps a 6" we will see. As for the gas line, the fireplace had a natural gas going to it so that I could light without kindling or use it with the gas and fake logs for ambiance. Then again aren't all fire place's without inserts just for ambiance? In any event I spoke to a gas guy who said that all I had to do was cap it. The valve is about 3-4 feet to the right of the firebox, I made sure it was tightly closed and blew air from my compressor into the pipe to expel any remaining gas and capped it. The key for the valve will be left inside the fireplace so that no one can accidentally turn on the valve, and so that when we remove the stove the key will be right there.

 

[Jags]

Hey - your not "The Man" that everybody is always trying to "Stick it to" are ya? If so, I would not like to be in your shoes. :lol:

Anyhow, I see your plight. Is there any way that you can get that section to "Ovalize" even more than you already have?? I would just like to caution you as well. If you are working that pipe so hard that you have torn a hole in it, please inspect it closely for any other integrity breach. safety first.

 

[THEMAN]

Hey - your not "The Man" that everybody is always trying to "Stick it to" are ya? If so, I would not like to be in your shoes. :lol:

Anyhow, I see your plight. Is there any way that you can get that section to "Ovalize" even more than you already have?? I would just like to caution you as well. If you are working that pipe so hard that you have torn a hole in it, please inspect it closely for any other integrity breach. safety first.

I used to oversee a bunch of women at work years ago and they would always call me the man, and it just kinda stayed with me. I know what you mean abut the remainder of integrity of the pipe that is why I don't want to try to get it further up the flue and instead want to unravel it from the round section in order to shorten it to be able to fit the offset box under it. I'm just not looking forward to this.

 

[Jags]

Hey - your not "The Man" that everybody is always trying to "Stick it to" are ya? If so, I would not like to be in your shoes. :lol:

Anyhow, I see your plight. Is there any way that you can get that section to "Ovalize" even more than you already have?? I would just like to caution you as well. If you are working that pipe so hard that you have torn a hole in it, please inspect it closely for any other integrity breach. safety first.

I used to oversee a bunch of women at work years ago and they would always call me the man, and it just kinda stayed with me. I know what you mean abut the remainder of integrity of the pipe that is why I don't want to try to get it further up the flue and instead want to unravel it from the round section in order to shorten it to be able to fit the offset box under it. I'm just not looking forward to this.

I hate to break it to you, but:
A your not the first person to try this
B only a small percentage succeed without removing the damper

This isn't saying that you can't do it. But you are taking on a difficult task at best. Hopefully, someone will jump in here with the next break through idea that will make it happen.

 

[Wet1]

Cut the damn thing out. If someone needs a damper in the future, they can install an external damper.

 

[mellow]

Why not do it right and leave the insert behind when you sell the house?

 

[Slow1]

Why not do it right and leave the insert behind when you sell the house?

+1 How likely is it that your next house will exactly fit this insert anyway? I'll bet you will want to upgrade to the next best thing anyway... besides, lugging a stove with the rest of your stuff in a move can't be fun!

 

[Wet1]

I think if you look around, the vast majority of us that have relined our flues with a SS liner have removed or partially removed the damper... so most of us have been in your position and came to the conclusion to deep 6 the damper. Most professional installers do the same.

In your case, I'd suggest this even more so since you're dealing with a stove that is supose to take an 8" flue. Necking an 8" flue down to a 4.5" oval (or less) is not the best idea in the world. Cut the thing and stick with the 7".

 

[THEMAN]

Why not do it right and leave the insert behind when you sell the house?

Because I do not want to deal with the fact that it may not pass inspection and that I will either have to get it back to code or worse take out the entire chimney. Don't forget I live in CA where people can't be expected to be responsible and think for themselves. So even if I disclose that the damper is no longer in working order and that the fireplace is not to be used. They can still come after me is the idiots start a fire. I will also have to prove that its a EPA PHASE II stove and to do that I will have to pull the stove out so that the inspector can see the tag on the back of the stove. I'm not sure about the external flue as to whether or not that is code here in CA. I will look into that especially when I decide to install the complete liner.

Why not do it right and leave the insert behind when you sell the house?

+1 How likely is it that your next house will exactly fit this insert anyway? I'll bet you will want to upgrade to the next best thing anyway... besides, lugging a stove with the rest of your stuff in a move can't be fun!

I want to take this stove with me because it advertises that can heat up to 3200sqft, I'm sure its less as most advertised outputs are over estimated, but it still puts out quite a bit of heat. Its a buck stove that can be used as an insert or free standing with the leg kit, so new house fireplace size doesn't mater. Not to mention that I do not want to spend thousands on a new stove when I have this one for only $300.00 that is in great shape.

 

[THEMAN]

I think if you look around, the vast majority of us that have relined our flues with a SS liner have removed or partially removed the damper... so most of us have been in your position and came to the conclusion to deep 6 the damper. Most professional installers do the same.

In your case, I'd suggest this even more so since you're dealing with a stove that is supose to take an 8" flue. Necking an 8" flue down to a 4.5" oval (or less) is not the best idea in the world. Cut the thing and stick with the 7".

I have noticed that the vast majority of you have relined your flues and have altered the damper. And I know that I should learn from those that have lived and tried what I want to do. However, most of you do not live in CA and are perhaps not as restricted in building codes as we are here in CA. Hell we can't even burn fires when we want we have to check with this web site http://www.valleyair.org/aqinfo/WoodBurnPage.htm to see if we can light our fireplaces on a daily basis. I wanted to give it a try myself to see if I could make it work. Stubborn I supposed. The pipe wasn't ovalized as much as it should have been and I think, er I know that had a lot to do with the damage it sustained. I'm glad to hear that you agree with the 7" in reduction from the 8". You don't really hear much about the 7" pipe, so I'm glad that at least I was on track with that.(+1 in a situation filled with -"s)

 

[golfandwoodnut]

I read that some people have put in the insert without even putting in any liner and had no problems. That would be your quick and easy solution. I wouldn't recommend it and I would get a carbon monoxide detecter to be sure it is safe. But when you think about it with a fire place the smoke just goes up the chimney, wouldn't the insert? If you do some research on here I am sure you will read some people have just shoved them in an lit them up.

 

[THEMAN]

I read that some people have put in the insert without even putting in any liner and had no problems. That would be your quick and easy solution. I wouldn't recommend it and I would get a carbon monoxide detecter to be sure it is safe. But when you think about it with a fire place the smoke just goes up the chimney, wouldn't the insert? If you do some research on here I am sure you will read some people have just shoved them in an lit them up.

I have done my research here and that is the reason that I am attempting a direct connect. Pretty much everyone has a liner and states that a liner is necessary for the stove to draft properly. I had the same question myself initially well heat rises and the smoke in an open fireplace never came back into the room but I do understand the difference in volume from an open fire place and the reduced volume from a stove especially when the draft is closed. Not to mention that here in California a direct connect is the minimum way of installing a stove.

 

[johnn]

OK! California,,,Got it!! So the hearth may or may not be up to code for gas versus wood burning,,do you really know?? Might find out before you worry too much about re-sale and meeting codes. Second, thats a great stove, which could have draft issues after you conquer the current issues, if you downplay the draft too much.. Dont tear up the damper getting it out like most and take your time with mansonry bits,,air muffler hammers or rivett guns or the old fashion way ,,hammer and chisel. Save it and glue it back in when you go to resale. Tie a rope to it all the way up to the top, to keep it from crsahing down on you, while laying under it. Nice savings, spend the time and sweat gettin her hokked up and moved if you so desire,,even with the current lose you are still ahead of the game!

ML