new wood hydronic boiler
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Bad LP
Minister of Fire
Even a plain old wood stove has the ability to heat mass for storage, all depends on installation. If one were to get real technical there are the Phase Shift components out there ( a classic example of phase shift is water when frozen - other items work in reverse of that) There has been a lot of research done on phase shift materials and thermal storage over the past 40+ years. Just does not make the main stream media.
Storage is really important especially with a radiant slab. Without storage it effectively becomes an outdoor wood boiler that slams the air damper shut when the load doesn't match the demand. This wastes wood, generates vast amounts of creosote and makes the neighborhood smell bad. A pellet boiler is a better match as many designs can adjust the fuel rate to match the demand.
My neighbor tried running a nice HS Tarm without storage. He had chimney fires despite monthly cleaning until he damaged his flue tiles, then replaced them with a SS liner and had several fires until he melted the liner and then switched to an OWB. He burns double the wood I do and is a nuisance to the neighborhood especially in fall and spring when it idles. It doesn't help that his idea of seasoned is 6 months.
My neighbor tried running a nice HS Tarm without storage. He had chimney fires despite monthly cleaning until he damaged his flue tiles, then replaced them with a SS liner and had several fires until he melted the liner and then switched to an OWB. He burns double the wood I do and is a nuisance to the neighborhood especially in fall and spring when it idles. It doesn't help that his idea of seasoned is 6 months.
Bad LP
Minister of Fire
maple1
Minister of Fire
I would say 'quite important'.
There are some indoor units that do without, like Woodgun & Econoburn, but I don't think I would put them in my house. Being forced draft, they have fairly big potential for smoke spillage. And they would do a whole lot better with storage. Anything that doesn't use storage will burn more wood, and not as clean, to varying degrees, without it.
salecker
Minister of Fire
I wouldn't recommend the Econoburn without storage.unless you want to be like the guy with the chimney fires.You would be doing lots of cleaning and using more wood.
salecker
Minister of Fire
Yes there are some coating to deflect uv rays and what not,but the coatings do nothing for actual r value.
Fred61
Minister of Fire
Any quality boiler with an output equal to or slightly less than you heat load.
FWIW, I wouldn't install any unit without storage.
Singed Eyebrows
Minister of Fire
If you don't want storage I would check out the Wood Gun. They are stainless steel. The air shuts down completely on high limit.
i called today on the SS wood gun, might as well get a garn those wood guns are pricey!! every gasification boiler that I've called on are right at the 10k mark and I've checked on every brand thats been recommended on here. the only cheaper one is the eko. by the time i get storage on any of those its going to be as much as a garn or more. also talked to gary at switzer, those actually sound real nice as well and a little cheaper than the garn, only downside is they are pretty massive! sounds like i would need a 20' building to put it in so that might have to go in the barn and i'll have to bring a line over from the barn to the house if i went that route. otherwise its some kind of addition on the garage that'll hold it. i do have my kids loft above the garage so it may be nice to put that heat loss off the tank to good use heating the garage.
Have you researched a used boiler, if your not in a hurry often their are good deals, and other system components to be had. In my area there are 2 garn 1500’s, the owners lifestyles have changed no longer wanting to burn wood, 7500$ each.
BoiledOver
Minister of Fire
Do you or someone close to you weld? You can get into 1,000 gallons of storage for about $500 using a propane or ammonia tank. I used two 500 gallon stubby propane tanks acquired at scrap prices, it was a lot of work to stack them though. If I had the longer footprint to place storage, it would have been a single 1,000 tank.
So, if you are a do it yourselfer, you could get into an Eko40, 1,000 gallons of storage, underground pex, and your other piping needs for about the same cost as just the Garn. Or maybe less.
So, if you are a do it yourselfer, you could get into an Eko40, 1,000 gallons of storage, underground pex, and your other piping needs for about the same cost as just the Garn. Or maybe less.
maple1
Minister of Fire
There are a couple for sale in the classified forum here. Also Taxidermist had his Biomass for sale too, I think.
And Fred was selling his Eko.
And Fred was selling his Eko.
maple1
Minister of Fire
You might try paging heaterman on here. I have no idea how far people are away from each other though.
ok thank you i will try contacting him, how popular are the switzer units? are they as good as the Garns?
It’s apples to oranges, the switzer is pressurized, allowing for higher water temps, I think he has a dwh coil inside and a oil gun integrated for backup if you like. He and his son in law do the installs, usually in just a few days, I believe he has upgraded his Controlls as well. He’s got stock sizes and will build custom also.
Singed Eyebrows
Minister of Fire
The Garn is a legend no doubt. That said I would take the pressurized Switzer over that if code allows. I don't believe Gary builds ASME, at least he didn't. Most inspectors probably won't even know what you are talking about with codes, you don't want to get the odd one that does & half to rip out your new boiler. The Garn is basically a swimming pool to code enforcement. There are a bunch of advantages to a pressure boiler. I would not want to mess with water chemistry for the Garn.
The obvious difference is that the pressurized boiler will store more btu’s As you can run up the water temp higher, possibly enabling more time between firings. With the oil gun and dwh coil it could save additional hardware. It’s installed and tuned by Gary, possibly saving headaches if you don’t want to tackle the project.
The garn is proven simplicity, does require water quality monitoring and requires backup and dwh hardware.
I had the privilege of testing a switzer, running on wood about 10 years ago with testo 327 fluegas analyzer, it was good, just not as good as my garn. I believe garn has more development in the secondary combustion area, or at least they did 10 years ago, Gary has upgraded his Controlls package, likewise on the garn. They both have their good points, so I’m going to call it the ford vs Chevy analogy!
The garn is proven simplicity, does require water quality monitoring and requires backup and dwh hardware.
I had the privilege of testing a switzer, running on wood about 10 years ago with testo 327 fluegas analyzer, it was good, just not as good as my garn. I believe garn has more development in the secondary combustion area, or at least they did 10 years ago, Gary has upgraded his Controlls package, likewise on the garn. They both have their good points, so I’m going to call it the ford vs Chevy analogy!
another plus for the switzer is it comes with the expansion tank and sounds like almost all the controls and the insulation. So its a fair amount cheaper
how does the domestic coil work in a switzer? does it produce hot water as fast as you use it or does it go trough the coil into some sort of tank to be used later?
The coil is just like one in a oil boiler, probably rated about 4 gpm, depends on how low of a water temp that’s useable to heat with, if you are supplying infloor radiant at 120 and want to run your storage temp that low then dhw could be dicey, possibly employing a way to bring the dhw up to temp. If your low heating temp was 140, then dhw should be covered by the coil.
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