new wood hydronic boiler

[Wyoelkhunter]

ok that coil set up makes sense, anybody running the old school traditional style royall boilers? i was looking at those online and they look like nice heavy duty boilers. the 6200 looks nice and has 90 gallons in the boiler. any drawbacks to going without a gasser?

 

[Wyoelkhunter]

the seton gasification boiler by Royall sounds pretty sweet too with the on off cycles. anybody running one of those?

 

[maple1]

Setons dont have a good rep.

 

[Wyoelkhunter]

ok good to know, how about the royall traditional boilers?

 

[Singed Eyebrows]

ok good to know, how about the royall traditional boilers?

The Royall is a tough ASME boiler. Its 50 percent efficient with flue gas temps that can turn the stove pipe red. I would look elsewhere.

 

[Singed Eyebrows]

I would look at the Wood Gun again. You don't need storage and an expensive expansion tank. It should last forever. Yes they are expensive as 1/4" stainless steel plate is not cheap. Try PM ing Muncie Bob as he knows these well.

 

[Wook660]

I've been running one of Gary Switzer's boilers for almost 3 years now and its been great! I had mine build with an oil gun for back up. The oil gun definitely complicates the control system which has become pretty sophisticated and complex but works very well. I don't think its a popular choice for whatever reason. Cost perhaps? I recently talked to him and he said he hadn't built one with oil backup since mine but he had improved his control system some. As far as the domestic hot water coil goes, my wife can fill her 110 gallon tub to the very top and we've made it too hot to get into before. We heat the house with radiant floor heat with the low point on the boiler set at 120 degrees, so yes when it gets that low you notice it in the shower but it still puts out plenty of hot water, just have to turn the shower knob almost all the way hot. I had it installed in the basement and yes its huge and in a dedicated room so I hope it outlasts me, cause I'll have to cut it up if I ever have to get rid of it.

 

[Wook660]

Day of arrival, it was extremely muddy so I used my tractor to move it on his trailer it came on. I had run all the pex to the location on the wall where he brought a sheet of plywood that was already configured with all the circulator pumps, plumbing, valving, etc which saved a lot of time. Him and his son in law arrived on a Wednesday I think it was, stayed with us over night and finished Thursday night and headed home. Insulation, expansion tank, and even over head sprinklers were all installed by them and it was up and running before they left of course.

 

[Wyoelkhunter]

that looks like a very nice setup, that thing is huge no doubt. thats the biggest problem with the garn and switzer set ups. if i framed fairly tight along the sides of the boiler and left a door for access to the back and the front how small could the room be?

 

[Wook660]

It's under my living room, so about a 13x18 foot area. I don't think you'd want to go smaller. It's tight but there's plenty of room for cleaning. I'll try to see if I have a picture but in the back of the boiler is the fan so you need at least 3 maybe 4 feet behind the unit. I have about 4 or 5 feet in front of it. Gary includes four tools for cleaning/stoking the fire. Because he knew I was placing it in a tight spot, he fabricated the clean out brush to fold in half otherwise it would be too long. On the left is just enough room to walk through sideways, on the right there is more room and that is where my oil tank is.

FYI, I provided all the paperwork/plans/specs Gary gave me before committing with him to the town when I submitted all my building plans and permit paperwork so they wouldn't be able to come back later and object to such a unit in the house. Most people have no understanding to what or why anybody would put something like this in their house. I didn't either until after probably 2 years of research on my options.

 

[Wyoelkhunter]

that switzer looks real nice, are there controls along the side of the boiler or can there be walls framed tight against the boiler sides? im thinking of having a big overhead door to access the back of the boiler and frame tight on the sides and then the front of the boiler would be exposed in the garage. would that work? i may need to draw a pic. what happens if i burn green wood in a gasifier? also how big of full size rounds can you put in these new gasification boilers? im no always going to have time to dry wood and im sure i'll throw all kind of slab junk wood in this boiler so i want something thats not going to give me problems no matter what i throw in there.

 

[maple1]

Trying to burn green or wet wood in a gasifier would be defeating the purpose of having a gasifier. Kind of like putting diesel in your new Ferrari.

 

[salecker]

what happens if i burn green wood in a gasifier? also how big of full size rounds can you put in these new gasification boilers? im no always going to have time to dry wood and im sure i'll throw all kind of slab junk wood in this boiler so i want something thats not going to give me problems no matter what i throw in there.

If you are serious about that statement,don't get a gasifiyer.
Green wood contains water,the same substance that firefighters use to put out fires.
There is no such unit that will not give you problems using green wood.Period.It doesn't exist.There are smoke dragons that will give you some heat with a box full of green wood.But problems still exist.Pissed off neighbors,your health if you are near it you will suffer even if you don't have neighbors,massive amounts of creosote,under performing smoke dragon that will use 2X as much wood to produce heat.
Just food for thought.

 

[Wyoelkhunter]

i just think drying wood for 2 years and not burning some unseasoned wood is pretty unrealistic. i cut green trees and always have green scraps to burn. i just don't think stacking all that and letting it dry is going to take more time than i am willing to spend. it seems like a lot of work to go through

 

[Bad LP]

i just think drying wood for 2 years and not burning some unseasoned wood is pretty unrealistic. i cut green trees and always have green scraps to burn. i just don't think stacking all that and letting it dry is going to take more time than i am willing to spend. it seems like a lot of work to go through

If that's how you feel then you should stop thinking about spending a lot of money on any efficient wood burning appliance. Nothing is free in this world so it's pay for it or put some labor into it.

Get the cheapest wood burner you can and install it well away from the house because it will catch fire from all the black goop forming in the chimney.

 

[peakbagger]

If that's how you feel then you should stop thinking about spending a lot of money on any efficient wood burning appliance. Nothing is free in this world so it's pay for it or put some labor into it.

Get the cheapest wood burner you can and install it well away from the house because it will catch fire from all the black goop forming in the chimney.

Yup I agree entirely, not worth wasting your money on an indoor wood boiler if you dont want to season wood. The gasifier will not work if the wood is wet. Many folks who do buy modern stoves start out with wet wood. Some make it through one or two really tough winters burning green wood until they figure it out, others give up and resell them.

 

[Marshy]

For what worit's worth, after installing my Froling and 820gal Solartechnics storage tank, I couldn't imagine it any other way. On average so far, I'm burning about half a face cord of wood per week. I fire the boiler twice a day on cold days with about a half a firebox load. On warm days I only fire it once and might load it 3/4 full. My house is 1850sqft with normal baseboard emitters. I aim to keep the tank operating temperature between 150-180. On warmer days I let it draw as far down as 130. My only regret would probably be not getting a 1000 gal storage capacity but I'm not going to complain as I found my tank/htx used about an hour away which helped me justify the system...
One thing to think about as already mentioned was having a backup. I bought my Froling through Tarm and the controls for my system to interface with my existing zone controls and also to use my existing oil boiler as an automatic backup if I want to walk away from the house for a week. Everything is seamless!

For in floor heating your operating range in your storage tank becomes much greater because the actual slab temp never gets very high. So for like my 820 gal storage tank you could probably run it down as far as 120 degrees and have sufficient heat whereas my hydronic baseboard emitters lost a lot of efficiency below 150F. I couldn't imagine having radiant heat, I'd probably double the time between burns.

 

[maple1]

Succe

For what worit's worth, after installing my Froling and 820gal Solartechnics storage tank, I couldn't imagine it any other way. On average so far, I'm burning about half a face cord of wood per week. I fire the boiler twice a day on cold days with about a half a firebox load. On warm days I only fire it once and might load it 3/4 full. My house is 1850sqft with normal baseboard emitters. I aim to keep the tank operating temperature between 150-180. On warmer days I let it draw as far down as 130. My only regret would probably be not getting a 1000 gal storage capacity but I'm not going to complain as I found my tank/htx used about an hour away which helped me justify the system...
One thing to think about as already mentioned was having a backup. I bought my Froling through Tarm and the controls for my system to interface with my existing zone controls and also to use my existing oil boiler as an automatic backup if I want to walk away from the house for a week. Everything is seamless!

For in floor heating your operating range in your storage tank becomes much greater because the actual slab temp never gets very high. So for like my 820 gal storage tank you could probably run it down as far as 120 degrees and have sufficient heat whereas my hydronic baseboard emitters lost a lot of efficiency below 150F. I couldn't imagine having radiant heat, I'd probably double the time between burns.

Success stories are always good!

 

[Wyoelkhunter]

thank you for the replies, i do want a efficient system so if that requires dry wood i guess thats what i'll have to do. i'll have to start on my wood stack now and try to get ahead of the curve.

 

[peakbagger]

Seasoning wood is only a PITA in the first two years while you are building up inventory, after that its the same amount of work required to burn green wood.

 

[Bad LP]

Yup I agree entirely, not worth wasting your money on an indoor wood boiler if you dont want to season wood. The gasifier will not work if the wood is wet. Many folks who do buy modern stoves start out with wet wood. Some make it through one or two really tough winters burning green wood until they figure it out, others give up and resell them.

It was one of the first things (seasoned wood) I learned here on the need for it if I was going to buy a wood boiler. Thankfully I already had seasoned wood for my wood stoves so the transition was simple.
My father started scrounging and burning wood back in the 70's during the oil embargo. My folks could afford it fine but he liked the work out and the challenge.

 

[Marshy]

thank you for the replies, i do want a efficient system so if that requires dry wood i guess thats what i'll have to do. i'll have to start on my wood stack now and try to get ahead of the curve.

Dry is a relative term honestly. My Froling boiler has a setting for wood > or < 20% moisture. My ash, maples, beech is 21-24% if it is split and stacked in the spring and burn in the fall. Oaks and locust is a different story, they need another year and are at 35%. I would say if you can manage <25% moisture you wont have any issues with a Froling. The closer you get to 20% or less the easier it is when starting a new fire. Ideally though <20% is what I would strive for. I'll be able to achieve that next year. I should have a lot of wood left over from this year at my current consumption rate.

 

[Wook660]

that switzer looks real nice, are there controls along the side of the boiler or can there be walls framed tight against the boiler sides? im thinking of having a big overhead door to access the back of the boiler and frame tight on the sides and then the front of the boiler would be exposed in the garage. would that work? i may need to draw a pic. what happens if i burn green wood in a gasifier? also how big of full size rounds can you put in these new gasification boilers? im no always going to have time to dry wood and im sure i'll throw all kind of slab junk wood in this boiler so i want something thats not going to give me problems no matter what i throw in there.

The control box can be mounted anywhere. Mine is on the wall on the left looking at the fire box. There is nothing on the sides that would interfere with putting the walls up close. So it sounds like you're going to put it on a slab right outside the garage with the front in the garage and build around it? Interesting idea. Just need to be able to mount the fan to something solid and run the 8 inch double wall chimney flue up.

 

[salecker]

Dry is a relative term honestly. My Froling boiler has a setting for wood > or < 20% moisture. My ash, maples, beech is 21-24% if it is split and stacked in the spring and burn in the fall. Oaks and locust is a different story, they need another year and are at 35%. I would say if you can manage <25% moisture you wont have any issues with a Froling. The closer you get to 20% or less the easier it is when starting a new fire. Ideally though <20% is what I would strive for. I'll be able to achieve that next year. I should have a lot of wood left over from this year at my current consumption rate.

This year i am burning dead trees straight from the forest to my boiler.Testing has reviled 15-18% MC.
I usually have my wood in place by summer,this summer i completed my wood shed roof so i needed the space to work.I was concerned about good wood,so i told the guy trading me wood i wanted trees with the bark falling off.

 

[Wyoelkhunter]

The control box can be mounted anywhere. Mine is on the wall on the left looking at the fire box. There is nothing on the sides that would interfere with putting the walls up close. So it sounds like you're going to put it on a slab right outside the garage with the front in the garage and build around it? Interesting idea. Just need to be able to mount the fan to something solid and run the 8 inch double wall chimney flue up.

Yea that is the best way i can come up with to make it work. Then the extra heat off the boiler will help heat up the garage and the floor under the kids bedrooms in the loft. Can the switzer be a horizontal exhaust or only vertical?