New Wood Insert

[FishHarder]

Hi New here. From South PA. got a new small house last summer and after this winter decided I'm going to make my main heat source a wood. I have a 1500sq ft rancher. Pretty open floor planned and am looking at a wood insert. I have tons of Maple and a free log connection now and a new splitter.

So the big question is. What the heck insert do you recommend. Is me wanting the Quadra Fire Voyager not the best path? It's not cheap but being in the HVAC end Welding business I liked the Outside air feed. I'm assuming it helps to prevent negative pressure in the house and control better burn? So the question is. What do you Seasoned vets recommend. Or any tips

 

[begreen]

Welcome to Hearth.com. The Quad is a good unit but note that there are several other inserts that have an outside air option. The important thing is what will fit? Do you have the full fireplace dimensions including front and back plus depth? Approximately how tall will the flue liner be from insert to top cap?

As for the wood supply, if you can get a couple cords that are already seasoned that might make for better heating next call. In the meantime start splitting right away and stack the wood so that the prevailing winds can blow through it and top cover the stacks.

 

[FishHarder]

Thank you. I will have to measure out the depth and with after work. When measuring. It is face of brick to back shollowest dimension? (Assuming the top. Since its angled)

 

[begreen]

Most fireplaces taper to a smaller width and height in the rear. Many also have a sloped back. The depth should be measured from the face brick to the rear, top and bottom center.

 

[Chinneysweep187]

Agree w/ begreen . Quad is good but there are other options . I personally look for units with high efficiency easy maintenance and less parts that can fail. Seems to be the consensus on this forum that stoves with cats are above all but I don't like them . Probably because they go bad when not properly maintained. For instance your not supposed to touch them with your hands or a wire brush because that can damage the noble metals .

 

[bholler]

Seems to be the consensus on this forum that stoves with cats are above all but I don't like them . Probably because they go bad when not properly maintained. For instance your not supposed to touch them with your hands or a wire brush because that can damage the noble metals .

There are lots of good cat stoves out now that are not a big maintenance issue. We just don't see many of them in our area yet. The best of them blaze kings just are not in our area i have never worked on one. That being said they do cost allot more and unless you need long low burns i don't see that they are worth the extra cost personally. But that is not for me to decide for anyone but myself. I have never heard you couldn't touch them no wire brush for sure but never saw anything about touching them but again i could be wrong i really don't work on many cats.

 

[Chinneysweep187]

I mean I have no scientific proof on why but I was told that by 2 different stove manufacturers one of them was Regency . We had a class in Maryland at their warehouse and they mentioned that the oils produced in your skin do something to the noble metals in the cat and not to touch them without gloves on . And now if you have a stove with a cat . You have to trust that the sweep or whoever is maintaining it won't do that or use a wire brush either . You also shouldn't spray compressed air at it either like a keyboard cleaner. The force equal to you blowing up a balloon is all that should pass through a cat.

 

[bholler]

I mean I have no scientific proof on why but I was told that by 2 different stove manufacturers one of them was Regency . We had a class in Maryland at their warehouse and they mentioned that the oils produced in your skin do something to the noble metals in the cat and not to touch them without gloves on . And now if you have a stove with a cat . You have to trust that the sweep or whoever is maintaining it won't do that or use a wire brush either . You also shouldn't spray compressed air at it either like a keyboard cleaner. The force equal to you blowing up a balloon is all that should pass through a cat.

Fair enough i had regency training as well and they didn't say that to us I may be doing it wrong who knows next time i talk to our rep ill ask him. but yeah every thing else is totally correct. we use a paintbrush with the vacuum hose behind it to clean them.

 

[Chinneysweep187]

Fair enough i had regency training as well and they didn't say that to us I may be doing it wrong who knows next time i talk to our rep ill ask him. but yeah every thing else is totally correct. we use a paintbrush with the vacuum hose behind it to clean them.

Like I said I'm not 100% sure maybe I misheard but I always use gloves if I have to touch them lol that would be really dumb if it wasn't true . But I also heard that from another stove company too .

 

[Grisu]

Thank you. I will have to measure out the depth and with after work. When measuring. It is face of brick to back shollowest dimension? (Assuming the top. Since its angled)

This chart may help: (broken link removed to http://www.woodheat.com/how-to-measure/)

What heat source did you use last winter? How much fuel did it use during the coldest month? Knowing that will help in determining the right insert size.

And since it cannot be said often enough: Get that wood split and stacked ASAP. Have it raised from the ground, single rows, top cover it and let it get lots of sun and wind. Ash and softwoods like pine may have a chance to be at least decent in the fall. Everything else I would not burn before next year's winter.

 

[stovelark]

Hi Fish and welcome. Since you mentioned the Quad Voyager, are you looking for a flush cast insert?? That stove will heat your 1500 sqft prob fine, but burn time is prob a little shy of what you are looking to do, it should go about 6-7 hours. Flush fit cast stoves, many manufacturers like Jotul and Enviro make them, along with Pacific Energy. Most all hearth brands make that style. I'd suggest something in the 2.5 cuft firebox range, for extended burn times. Lots of good steel inserts too, Quad, Enviro, PE, Lopi, Regency just to mention a few. Your chimney should be around 15-20 feet, (being a ranch home) so 6 inch liner and install should be straightforward. You just need measurements to see what will fit the fireplace. Good luck with it, get your wood cut, split and stacked, that is the key.

 

[FishHarder]

I use oil (no natural gas around) went through 750 gallons last year. I have a bit of bad heat loss in two rooms. (Gonna take care of that tgis summer) And with little kids 4 and 2 wife had the house warm. And since I'm electric hot water. Firewood seemed right.

Maple split now won't be ready? It's 90 now. Crazy question. But I have a old Holly tree I cut. Will that be OK to burn? I burnt the leaves in my burn barrel and they went up like jet fuel.

 

[FishHarder]

Back of the fore place side to side is 26" wide on top and bottom. Face to rear in center on bottom is 23 1/4" on top is 19" the front brick opening is 31 1/2" wide 30" high. If you think I should drawl it out. If it's confusing I can.

 

[begreen]

Yes, hardwoods typically take a couple years to season. The exception being ash. Holly is excellent firewood once it is fully seasoned.

 

[begreen]

Back of the fore place side to side is 26" wide on top and bottom. Face to rear in center on bottom is 23 1/4" on top is 19" the front brick opening is 31 1/2" wide 30" high. If you think I should drawl it out. If it's confusing I can.

Sounds good. I would consider an Enviro Boston (or Venice) 1700 insert as well if you like a classic cast iron look. It will project more out onto the hearth which will provide better heating without the blower running. This is nice if you are in an area that gets winter power outages.
http://enviro.com/products/catalogue/product/?prod=1700C-FPI
It has a larger firebox which will help you achieve longer burn times too.

 

[FishHarder]

Awesome to know. I heard there are a few trees that burn a toxic fume. Don't know if it's true and what they are. But definitely like to ask. Is there a recommended book or site to best identify trees. I know oak and maple and cherry but some I give the old slanted head shoulder shrug on

 

[begreen]

Start a new post on learning how to ID trees in the Wood Shed forum here. You'll get lots of advice.

 

[begreen]

Another insert that is slightly larger than the Voyageur is the PE Alderlea T5. It's a good heater even without the blower and has good burn times as well.
(broken link removed to http://www.pacificenergy.net/products/wood/cast-iron-inserts/alderlea-t5-insert/)

 

[FishHarder]

Awesome thanks for that tip. I'm use yo Weldingweb.com forums. I get lost in here haha. Looks like I'm in the $3000 price range looking at all these similar style units. Not including the liner.

 

[FishHarder]

Stove Lark. I do like the flush look. But the Boston looks nice as well. Trying to please the wife with looks and me from flipping the oil guy off lol

 

[FishHarder]

Definitely want a blower. Wanna get that air moving across the whole house. Plus with my tree guy conception. Free logs being delivered I wanna maybe down the road do a wood boiler. But that's a far off dream.

 

[Chinneysweep187]

This chart may help: (broken link removed to http://www.woodheat.com/how-to-measure/)

What heat source did you use last winter? How much fuel did it use during the coldest month? Knowing that will help in determining the right insert size.

And since it cannot be said often enough: Get that wood split and stacked ASAP. Have it raised from the ground, single rows, top cover it and let it get lots of sun and wind. Ash and softwoods like pine may have a chance to be at least decent in the fall. Everything else I would not burn before next year's winter.

Ash is awesome but please don't burn pine or birch . Too sappy or at least don't call me to sweep your chimney

 

[Grisu]

Ash is awesome but please don't burn pine or birch . Too sappy or at least don't call me to sweep your chimney

Yep, I won't call a sweep who believes in that "pine is bad"-myth. Many people here, me included, burn properly dried pine just fine. My chimney looks as good or even better as the winters I only burned hardwoods. What do you think the burners on the west coast are doing where they mostly have to use softwoods?

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/safe-to-burn-pine.81698/
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/burned-again-by-the-pine-myth.89299/
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/burning-pine.86205/

 

[Grisu]

I use oil (no natural gas around) went through 750 gallons last year.

Assuming you burned the 750 gallons in an 80% efficient furnace/boiler you used 84 mBTU last year. From a cord of mixed hardwood you should expect ~16 mBTU which means you will need to burn about 5 cords if you want to totally replace your oil consumption. Given that the last winter was really cold 4 cords would probably be your average for a normal winter. Still, I would certainly look into an insert with a 2.5 cu ft firebox if not larger that you have enough capacity for the really cold days. Enviro 1700 series, PE Neo 2.5, Osburn 2000/Matrix would fall in that category. Or look for a large insert like the PE Summit, Quadrafire 5100i, Regency I3100, Osburn 2400, Lopi Freedom or Large Flush Hybrid. Or the BlazeKing Princess which allows a nice steady heat output on low and when it gets really cold you can crank it up.

Have the installer make a block-off plate: https://www.hearth.com/talk/wiki/make-a-damper-sealing-block-off-plate/ or make one yourself. Is the fireplace at an exterior wall? If yes, some insulation behind it may reduce heat loss to the outside: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/finally-got-around-to-insulating-my-fireplace.75755/ You already know about the need for a full liner (preferably insulated). Did someone mention the dry wood already?

 

[stovelark]

Hi Fish Indeed sounds like you're on the right track. For good looks, the Enviro Boston is a favorite of mine too. Jotul Rockland CB550 is a good looking stove, but has smaller firebox at 2.1 cuft. Lots of good choices out there. Yeah, pine is fine if dried,I've burned plenty here too. Nothing beats the hardwoods though, if they are seasoned.