Newbie here. Help me convince my wife we need an insert!

[av8roc]

First post, been lurking for a while.

We bought our house in the spring and are considering a fireplace insert to offset the cost of heating oil. (275g tank costs over $500 bucks a pop to fill). I burn fires easily 4 nights a week and figure if I'm burning I might as well be heating!

My uncle owns a Jotul 450C and a buddy owns a regency insert and they both rave about them.

My wife is concerned that perhaps our living room is too small for an insert... The house is a 1200' sq ft cape, 2 bedrooms up and 2 down. The LR with fireplace is about 16' x 14' and with a small attached DR and 8 foot ceilings.

The fireplace is 35" x 26" x 22" at its deepest. Two inserts I am considering are the Jotul 450C kennebec and the Vermont Castings Montpelier.

With such a small LR the couches are pretty close to the fireplace. We sit about 7' in front of the hearth.

Attached are 2 pictures to give you an idea of the size of the room. The first was from when we bought the house and second is after some remodeling I did, hence the difference in look of the fireplace.

Any advice you guys may have is appreciated and thanks in advance!

 

[szmaine]

Why are you not considering the Jotul Winterport as well - it is a small space...

 

[EatenByLimestone]

How wide is the hearth in front of the fireplace. Adding an insert may require it to be extended.

Matt

 

[av8roc]

I'm on the road at the moment so I will take exact measurements tonight when I get back but for now I would say...

12" deep and 60" wide

 

[begreen]

How easily does the heat get upstairs? Is there an open staircase in this area? If so, the area shouldn't overheat unless a big fire is kept burning. The C450 should work, though the mantle might be an issue. For the next size down, the Jotul C350 or Hampton HI200 come to mind here.

 

[schwaggly]

On sept 26th I asked the question "how do I convince the wife to let me get a fireplace insert?" Then I took a digital pic up chimney. At that point it was a safety issue as you can see.
I now have a regency I1200 which may fit your app as well. I'm not suggesting you show her the pic of my chimney and say its yours but you could show her a worst case scenario.




BTW I hate the yankees

 

[szmaine]

She thinks you will be too hot because the room is small. yes?
How warm does she like it to be with your current set up?
Perhaps we can work that angle.

 

[branchburner]

If you get a small insert you can still enjoy a fire without roasting yourselves out of the room.

Make sure to let your wife know that compared to an insert you will burn ten times as much wood in the open fireplace and generate less heat! Our fireplace pulled in so much cold air through the cracks that, even though it was cozy right in front of the fire, the house actually got colder the longer it burned.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

You can tell her she won't have to dress nearly as warm when she is sitting in front of an insert.

Matt and likes when his wife isn't wearing much!

 

[Dix]

You'll be saving a fortune in oil (off setting the high cost of fuel on LI), your house will be warmer than with the oil & fireplace, and you'll be capitoly improving the value of your home down the line for resale value (made that on up, alittle, it is entirely feasible, how ever).

Last year, I put the insert in. I suggested to the SO that he put a stove in his house. He said he'd wait & see how mine went. Now, he's ticked that he didn't do it last year, and with the economy the way it is right now, can't. So he's grumbling about the heat on 62, while my thermostat is "off" and it's 77 in the house when I crank her up.

 

[av8roc]

Why are you not considering the Jotul Winterport as well - it is a small space...

From other threads I've been reading the common consensus is bigger insert smaller burn over smaller insert bigger burn. Am I wrong?

How easily does the heat get upstairs? Is there an open staircase in this area? If so, the area shouldn't overheat unless a big fire is kept burning. The C450 should work, though the mantle might be an issue. For the next size down, the Jotul C350 or Hampton HI200 come to mind here.

There is a staircase behind the couch opposite the fireplace and it is half open. To be honest I don't know how well the heat travels upstairs as I have a separate zone with dedicated thermostat up there.

How much Hearth does the 450 require? Is the depth an issue? 12" seems like it would be sufficient but now I am having my doubts.

On sept 26th I asked the question "how do I convince the wife to let me get a fireplace insert?" Then I took a digital pic up chimney. At that point it was a safety issue as you can see.
I now have a regency I1200 which may fit your app as well. I'm not suggesting you show her the pic of my chimney and say its yours but you could show her a worst case scenario.


BTW I hate the yankees

I think her response would be "let's just get it swept then." I will take a pic however when I get home as I am curious.

I hate the Yankees as well... Mets fan here!

She thinks you will be too hot because the room is small. yes?
How warm does she like it to be with your current set up?
Perhaps we can work that angle.

We keep the house between 68-70... she does have a tendency to bundle up in the winter months.

If you get a small insert you can still enjoy a fire without roasting yourselves out of the room.

Make sure to let your wife know that compared to an insert you will burn ten times as much wood in the open fireplace and generate less heat! Our fireplace pulled in so much cold air through the cracks that, even though it was cozy right in front of the fire, the house actually got colder the longer it burned.

I've noticed the same thing... LR is nice and toasty with a fire going but the back bedrooms are chilly!

You'll be saving a fortune in oil (off setting the high cost of fuel on LI), your house will be warmer than with the oil & fireplace, and you'll be capitoly improving the value of your home down the line for resale value (made that on up, alittle, it is entirely feasible, how ever).

Last year, I put the insert in. I suggested to the SO that he put a stove in his house. He said he'd wait & see how mine went. Now, he's ticked that he didn't do it last year, and with the economy the way it is right now, can't. So he's grumbling about the heat on 62, while my thermostat is "off" and it's 77 in the house when I crank her up.

I'm sold on the idea of installing an insert.. Her concern is it will be too hot in the LR (which is where we spend most of our time in the evenings)... I think it's a reasonable concern.

 

[szmaine]

You can tell her she won't have to dress nearly as warm when she is sitting in front of an insert.

Matt and likes when his wife isn't wearing much!

There you all go again. :roll:
Listen. there only so much you can take off, but you can always put something on.

 

[szmaine]

She thinks you will be too hot because the room is small. yes?
How warm does she like it to be with your current set up?
Perhaps we can work that angle.

We keep the house between 68-70... she does have a tendency to bundle up in the winter months.

If you get a small insert you can still enjoy a fire without roasting yourselves out of the room.

Make sure to let your wife know that compared to an insert you will burn ten times as much wood in the open fireplace and generate less heat! Our fireplace pulled in so much cold air through the cracks that, even though it was cozy right in front of the fire, the house actually got colder the longer it burned.

She will like it and you will save. Print this and give to your wife. Tell her to come post here if she wants -no question too small for these guys.
Start a new thread on appropriate sizing with house layout. Onward you go.

 

[BrotherBart]

Something that happens with an insert in a installation like yours is that cool air is pulled to the stove at floor level and the warm air moves out of the room at the ceiling level. We had our monster insert and now have a large stove in the fireplace in a room about that size. Sitting on the couch you aren't overheated because the cooler air is moving right by and over you to the stove.

In fact it get drafty sitting there sometimes.

 

[hockeypuck]

Check out he Hamptons before spending the dough on the Jotul's. I have a HI300 and really can not find anything wrong with it. A larger insert will take longer to heat up, so if you are going to be burning sporadically and since your home may not require a large stove (hi300 or Jotul 450) consider the HI200.

 

[av8roc]

She thinks you will be too hot because the room is small. yes?
How warm does she like it to be with your current set up?
Perhaps we can work that angle.

We keep the house between 68-70... she does have a tendency to bundle up in the winter months.

If you get a small insert you can still enjoy a fire without roasting yourselves out of the room.

Make sure to let your wife know that compared to an insert you will burn ten times as much wood in the open fireplace and generate less heat! Our fireplace pulled in so much cold air through the cracks that, even though it was cozy right in front of the fire, the house actually got colder the longer it burned.

She will like it and you will save. Print this and give to your wife. Tell her to come post here if she wants -no question too small for these guys.
Start a new thread on appropriate sizing with house layout. Onward you go.

I appreciate it. So you guys seem to be steering me towards a smaller insert, interesting. The Jotul Wintersport seems like a nice unit but I hate to spend all the cash and not be satisfied with the heat output. I would think a larger unit with the fan off or set low would be a better option but perhaps I am wrong.

Good stuff guys, keep it coming!

 

[BrotherBart]

When the fan is off is when that room will get hotter because of air circulation in the house.

 

[av8roc]

Something that happens with an insert in a installation like yours is that cool air is pulled to the stove at floor level and the warm air moves out of the room at the ceiling level. We had our monster insert and now have a large stove in the fireplace in a room about that size. Sitting on the couch you aren't overheated because the cooler air is moving right by and over you to the stove.

In fact it get drafty sitting there sometimes.

That's a great point thanks. Do you need additional fans to achieve that draw through the house or should the insert take care of it on its own?

 

[BrotherBart]

For the room the stove is in the convection of the stove or a little addition of the blower does the job. For upstairs we sometimes put a small fan on the floor at the top of the stairs to help the cold air fall down the stairs a little faster so that it is replaced with warmer air.

 

[Rudyjr]

I think you would be happy with any of the stoves mentioned. I don't think you can go wrong with the c450 though, not too small and not too big for most applications. My wife also thought that it would run us out of our family room but she loves it.

 

[Dix]

AV, I think a floor plan would help here.

Any celing fans in the house?

 

[av8roc]

I think you would be happy with any of the stoves mentioned. I don't think you can go wrong with the c450 though, not too small and not too big for most applications. My wife also thought that it would run us out of our family room but she loves it.

That's a good looking setup!

 

[av8roc]

AV, I think a floor plan would help here.

Any celing fans in the house?

Ceiling fans in the back bedrooms but not in the LR. I will get a floorplan up tomorrow when I get home and have some spare time on my hands.

 

[firefighterjake]

Why anyone would have a fireplace and not put an insert into it (or consider a wood burning stove) is beyond me . . . especially if someone is already regularly burning wood. I mean to say, if you have the wood on hand and you're burning already, why not burn efficiently and get warm at the same time. The inserts today offer great views of the fire and can be installed so very little floor space is taken up by the insert . . . for me it's a no brainer . . . fire is nice to look at . . . but being warmed by that fire is much more important to me.

Oh yeah, as to another reason to convince her . . . mention the tax credit which is available this year and next . . . saving a huge chunk o' change should be a good reason to buy sooner rather than later . . . well that and cheap heat.

 

[Rudyjr]

Why anyone would have a fireplace and not put an insert into it (or consider a wood burning stove) is beyond me . . . especially if someone is already regularly burning wood. I mean to say, if you have the wood on hand and you're burning already, why not burn efficiently and get warm at the same time. The inserts today offer great views of the fire and can be installed so very little floor space is taken up by the insert . . . for me it's a no brainer . . . fire is nice to look at . . . but being warmed by that fire is much more important to me.

Oh yeah, as to another reason to convince her . . . mention the tax credit which is available this year and next . . . saving a huge chunk o' change should be a good reason to buy sooner rather than later . . . well that and cheap heat.

I could not agree more:
We used the fireplace that our insert is in for over 20 years. We burnt approximately 1 cord of wood every season, mostly weekends and holidays. Our furnace ran constantly to keep up with the heat being sucked out of the house. With the insert installed the 1 cord of wood lasts one heck of a long time. We use the insert two to three times as much as the fireplace on the same amount of wood. The house is always warm with the insert burning and the furnace does'nt kick on. And best but not least our natural gas budget for this year is one third lower than last year. My wife who was against any type of insert or stove initially is now its biggest supporter, she loves it.