Newbie with stove and hearth questions

[Jonbass40]

I'm new to wood stoves and to heating with wood in general. We have an 1900sqft farm house to heat and the propane bills are getting to be a killer. We've been looking at the nc30. Is that a good stove for a beginning wood burner? Both me and my wife work during the day, is this something I can get started and leave unattended for 8hrs or is that not possible? We would like to try and heat as much as possible with a woodstove.

My other dilemma is where to locate it in my living room, I've got room in both the corner and a side wall. Either location will require an outdoor chimney install. I've attached some pictures of trying to lay it out based on the stove requirements.

 

[Grisu]

Welcome to the forum!

The 30NC is well-liked here as it performs well especially for its price. It is not any more easy or difficult to operate than any other EPA-approved wood stove. The key is using dry wood with an internal moisture content of less than 20%. Do you already have several cords of wood split and stacked sitting in your yard? The 30NC has 3 cu ft firebox and you should come home to a still warm albeit not hot stove with plenty of coals for an easy restart. If that will be enough to keep your house warm the entire time will depend on the level of insulation, outside temps, movement of the warm air in your house etc. Nevertheless, I would expect the 30NC to make a major dent in your propane bill.

Both locations should work but make sure to observe all clearances, especially with all that wood paneling you have on the walls. The 30NC has heat-shields which I highly recommend using in your case. Exceeding the minimum clearance requirements is also never a bad idea. Be also aware that the stove needs a hearth with a r-value of 1.5. If you want to build your own here is a list of common hearth materials: (broken link removed) A forum search will give you plenty of threads where people describe how they made theirs.

 

[begreen]

The stove should be sized to the area it will be heating. If the area is a closed off room with just a doorway then you may be better off sticking to a smaller stove. If the floor plan is open and there is an easy way for heat to migrate around the floor and perhaps to another second floor via an open stairway, then a larger stove makes sense.

What is the floor plan like? How many sq ft will the stove be heating?

The ideal location for the stove would be central to the floor plan and with a chimney straight up through the house. If the chimney has to go through the 2nd floor it can be chased or perhaps run in a closet or hallway and then chased. A straight-up chimney through the house will draft the best and will stay cleaner. If there are no other options besides running the chimney through a thimble, out a wall and then up, place it on the gable side of the house. This will look better, have better anchorage, and will hopefully allow enough chimney height for good draft. The two 90 degree turns that the smoke will have to take to head up the chimney will effectively reduce its height by about 3 ft per turn. This can be compensated by adding more expensive chimney pipe.

 

[Jonbass40]

Thank you for the replies, the stove would be heating about 1500 sq feet on two levels. The floor plan is surprisingly open for being such an old farmhouse. We have an open staircase in an entryway adjacent to the living room where the wood stove would be located so I don't foresee many issues with heating the upstairs.

Another stove that caught my eye was the drolet legend, are these good stoves? Eventually I'd like to get a nice woodstock cat stove or a blaze king cat stove, but the 3k plus price is more then I can afford. Plus I'd rather burn for a year or two before I make that sort of investment in a stove.

The chimney has to go up the outside of the house, with the layout of the upstairs there just isn't a way to hide the pipe and not take to much space from the already small rooms.

The wood supply won't be much of an issue, my father in law heats with an outdoor boiler and I've been helping him cut wood for the last few years. So we have a few years worth of dry wood already.

I'd hate to have to cover the walls if I can help it, they are covered from lumber from old boxcars and have been there sense the 20s so there would be no fixing it if you decided to take the stove out. I'm a little apprehensive about cutting a hole in the wall for the chimney even but it can't be helped.

 

[begreen]

The house should be pretty easy to heat. How is the insulation? It sounds like you want an affordable stove with low clearances. They don't need a wall shield as long as clearances are honored. A good stove to look at would be the Pacific Energy Super 27, or if that hurts the budget, their value line stove, the True North TN19. My favorite Drolets are those that have a more square firebox. The Legend/Baltic is a popular model that has a square firebox, but at 3 cu ft it may be overkill. It would work if the house is poorly insulated and drafty though you may need to open a window on milder days. Install with double-wall stove pipe to keep clearances lower. Other stoves to consider would be a Napoleon 1450, Lopi 1750, and Enviro Kodiak.

 

[Jonbass40]

As you can see I was busy with the masking tape. This might give you a better idea of the layout of the house. I'm open to any and all suggestion as this is my first time doing this n there defiantly no room for do overs.

 

[begreen]

Looks like you have 1900 sq ft total. If some of the heat can go into that remaining 400 sq ft the Legend should be fine. Is one of the stove locations on the gable end of the house? If so, that would be preferable.

 

[Jonbass40]

Unfortunately there is no way that the chimney can be run up the gable side. I understand that it is a less then perfect location but unfortunately that's all I have to work with.

On a side note, my wife seen pictures of an enviro boston 1700 that she much prefers over the drolet or englander. Does anyone have any idea how much those cost and if they are decent stoves? Have not found much information good or bad on them.

 

[Poindexter]

Since the box car paneling has been there since the 1920s I am going to go out on a limb and guess the building was originally heated with wood.

Can you find out or do you already know where the original fireplace/ wood stove was? What would you have to do to work with that? What I am getting at is probably somewhere in both your roof framing and the framing the second floor sits on is an existing opening that you might could uncover and reuse.

Might be where your cook stove is in the kitchen - it may be a non starter type idea - but I think it is worth a look. Probably the folks that built your home forgot more about would heating than everyone here put together knows.

While I have only driven across Illinois and the winter and never actually stayed there through the winter months, I remember it being cold enough that keeping your chimney inside the building as long as possible and making a single straight shot from stove collar to chimney cap are both worthy goals.

Setting a new stove where the brown leather arm chair currently sits would - to me - be worth moving an interior doorway upstairs and giving up 9sqft of upstairs floor space.

Remember putting in the stove is a one time headache. Cleaning the chimney and dealing with firewood is a problem you will have for the rest of your life.

 

[Jonbass40]

At one time there was probably a fireplace where the tv is currently located. At one time there was a brick chimney there because you can see the remains of it in the attic. Unfortunately there is nothing usable about it anymore and would need to be removed.

With the outside installation a cleanout would be easier I would think, no need to climb onto the steep roof to brush it out. Going straight up through the ceiling where I marked it at would place the chimney much to close to the bed upstairs.

To be honest I'm fairly overwhelmed with this project now. At first I thought it would be a fairly inexpensive and straightforward installation but now it's looking like this could be well over 5k, which I simply cannot afford

 

[begreen]

Unfortunately there is no way that the chimney can be run up the gable side. I understand that it is a less then perfect location but unfortunately that's all I have to work with.

On a side note, my wife seen pictures of an enviro boston 1700 that she much prefers over the drolet or englander. Does anyone have any idea how much those cost and if they are decent stoves? Have not found much information good or bad on them.

The Enviro Boston 1700 is a handsome, well made stove. Prices vary with locale.

 

[Poindexter]

Do you have a reputable pellet dealer nearby who has been in business a while?

I don't own a pellet stove (yet) but I am looking at them pretty hard for my lower level. My cord wood stove is on the upper level of my two story home so I am still heating the lower level with oil.

The down sides to pellet stoves - for me- is if the power goes out I can't run either of my oil furnace or the pellet stove without a generator. Pick my poison on that one. The other thing is pellet stove's won't run on pallets or storm fall or last year's Christmas tree. (Yes, most of last year's Christmas tree is in this year's wood pile.) We are getting into the bad time of year to be buying pellets, locally the best time to buy is May June and July.

I encourage you to talk to people local to you to see what works in your climate. Local to me externally chased chimneys are rare as hen's teeth and troublesome as all get out. Down to zero, maybe minus ten they can do OK, but below that the owners are burning some wood just to keep the chimney hot enough to draw.

Wile you are talking to locals, ask about which side of the house you flue should be on if it isn't on the roof. I would guess with a broad brush anywhere in the lower 48 the east side of the house is a good place to start, but I bet there are a blue million exceptions.

OTOH if the support pipeline is in place for you locally $5k will buy a really nice pellet stove and the install kit and many pallets of pellets - plus you can just punch a 4" hole in the wall somewhere on your ground floor with basically a heavy duty dryer vent on the outside of your house. Locally it is recommended to run 4' of vertical chimney inside the house and then 90, though wall, end cap.

You could punch near the floor and put your 90 and 4' vertical outside the house, but you will be losing/wasting some heat. Supposedly the 4' vertical is so if the stove goes out the flue draft keeps smoke out of the living spaces.

I am not saying you should buy a pellet stove, but it sounds like you should consider one. FWIW I clean my chimney from inside the house. I use a regular brush on kind of springy like fishing rod nylon sticks. Just let the stove cool, raise the telescoping black piece off the stove collar, masking tape, trash bag with a hole just big enough for the nylon stick, done.

Good luck.

 

[Jonbass40]

I briefly thought about a pellet stove, but seeing as how I already have everything else needed for wood heat I'd rather not. We also have power issues during the winter in northern illinois. Last year I was without power for almost a week. Running a generator 24/7 to keep the furnace on and the pipes from freezing is not a very pleasurable event in neg 10 degree weather.

Btw poindexter I see your from Fairbanks, me and my wife were there at the end of March this year. The countryside up there is simply amazing. We rented a cabin from Kirk, right by Denali and got to see a great display of the northern lights. Sure would love to live there.