News from the Dark Side

[tom in maine]

Hey,
The latest issue of Fuel Oil News has a photo of the Froling boiler on the cover!
http://www.fueloilnews.com/ME2/Default.asp

LOL,
Tom

 

[Jim K in PA]

:lol: Wow. I know I will garner some flames from some die hard oil fans, but what a load of crap in that article. "Gas pump mentality". Yep - we are all idiots that flock like ducks to the bread crumbs of alternative heating. I was hoping to see them offer some original thought on integrating a reliable, oil fired backup/supplement system to go along with a solid fueled heating appliance. I think the mantra at the end sums it up best:

“We encourage all of our dealers to go out and sell new equipment. They will do a service for their customers – and they’ll retain them.”

Yeah - that's what I want. My oil man telling me that I need to abandon a perfectly serviceable 82% efficiency unit for new unit that MIGHT get me an additional 10% efficiency. How long will that 10% fuel savings take to cover the $6-8k cost for an oil fired mod-con install? Is there an oil fired mod-con?

Thanks for pointing out the article Tom.

 

[Tree farmer]

I'm glad we have pissed them off, diminishing demand its the only way we will be able to keep prices of fuel affordable - KEEP BURNING WOOD! And I'll be buying a used oil boiler to replace my 24 year old one for backup thanks.

 

[mtfallsmikey]

And..at what price are you willing to pay for that extra 10% efficiency?....higher maintenance costs? Until modulating oil technology becomes a workable reality, 90% combustion effieciency with oil is just a "pipe" dream. I learned not to jump on bandwagons...early 70's oil-embargo fueled oil burners/boilers sooted up ffrom high-sulphur low quality fuel, now the gas fired mod-cons are letting loose in increasing numbers, negating any fuel savings with replacement/repairs bills...I'll stick with wood, thanks you!

 

[slowzuki]

A mod-con only saves you if you have a low temp demand for it. Too many of them installed connected to the wrong systems.

 

[pybyr]

And..at what price are you willing to pay for that extra 10% efficiency?....higher maintenance costs? Until modulating oil technology becomes a workable reality, 90% combustion effieciency with oil is just a "pipe" dream. I learned not to jump on bandwagons...early 70's oil-embargo fueled oil burners/boilers sooted up ffrom high-sulphur low quality fuel, now the gas fired mod-cons are letting loose in increasing numbers, negating any fuel savings with replacement/repairs bills...I'll stick with wood, thanks you!

Someone I know has one of the well-respected gas mod-cons, only a few years old. Some part of the blower housing cracked, and when he tried to get that one part, the company told him that it only came as part of a much bigger assembly, costing many hundreds of dollars. He ended up able to epoxy it, which is working for now- but I agree with the post above, I like things that are simple, sturdy, and not prohibitively complex or expensive to repair.

 

[slowzuki]

Nothing particularly fancy in a modcon boiler, just tend to have a lot of plastic and stainless due to the condensing temps and corrosion. The other controls stuff in them is only a step above what is in any new compact natural gas boiler.

 

[heaterman]

From where I sit...........straddling both the wood and conventional fuel industries, some of what was said in the article makes sense some doesn't.

Here's a few points

There in fact is little that can be gained by a condensing oil appliance due to the properties of the fuel. A good modern oil burner like a Riello will routinely hit 85-87% in any appliance I've stuck one in. A really good boiler like a Viessmann Vitola for example often has to be "toned down" to keep it out of condensing range by allowing some of the flue gas to bypass the heat exchanger. You could get 93-95 % from an oil condenser but as others have questioned, at what long term cost. The fuel itself contains much less condensable material (water) than gaseous fuels do. The less you can condense the less you save with a condenser.

On another note; condensing appliances are often installed on systems that need 150*+ water in order to adequately heat a structure. In an instance like that, a condensing appliance makes little economic sense. Matching a condenser to the right type of system is half the battle. There's a reason it's illegal to install a system requiring over 167* in Europe. They understand it and enforce it. A typical homeowner can probably gain more from redesigning their heating system to use lower temp water than by installing a high efficiency appliance. Once that's done a condenser makes more sense.

High priced fuel is here to stay unless the entire world grinds to a halt. Two billion people in China and India have now caught the scent of prosperity. I highly doubt that they will let go of it. So much for falling demand on anything other than a temporary basis. T'aint gonna happen. To say last years prices were a blip or a transient occurrence ignores the reality of a finite resource and increasing demand. Plan on more to come.

No mention was made of the number one thing that can save energy costs and that is tightening up a home. In older houses especially the number one heat loss area is air infiltration. Improving the building envelope should be the number one priority in any energy saving scheme.

Also.....no mention was made of the fact that we do not depend on the Arabs for wood. It's home grown and carbon neutral.

"news from the Dark Side".........I like that.:O