NS/EW please clarify

[MarkC]

I think I know what you are implying with the NS/EW loading directions and also understand the significance of where the feed air is coming from in relation to the wood layout. What I don't get is why you would need to load short pieces in a stove perpendicular to the flow to get a reasonable burn.

More like why would they design a stove (Oslo 500) with the air feed from the front when the long direction is opposite? You want to maximize the fuel / box capacity ratio right?
Please enlighhten me...

Mark

 

[Huntindog1]

East west load with the ends of the logs facing to the sides of the stove, will usually lengthen burn times as the air doesnt flow back to the back of the stove as easy. This basically makes stove burn up front at first and burn its way back to the back for a longer burn. North South Loading lets the air flow more easily between the pieces to reach the back of the stove so the back is burning at the same time as the front. Alot of people rake their coals forward to load the back row on no coals all the way to the bottom and that lets you load an extra split on that back row. This also helps with longer burn times. When I load like this I like to leave the front row open and load small kindling on the front row of an east west load to let the kindling burn hot and fast to bring up stove temps before I burn alot of my big stuff in the back which is needed for long burns.

 

[LLigetfa]

Many stoves do very well on E/W loads and don't need N/S. More fire is not always better. If you burn at a higher rate than the stove can dissipate the heat to the room, more of the heat can go up the flue.

Marketing probably dictates the dimensions of the stove. Many folk don't want a stove that protrudes too far into a room. I know the dimensions were a factor when I was evaluating models.

If you look at the interior space of some stoves, it becomes apparent that some manufacturers didn't design the stove to burn N/S. It is possible that N/S burning may overfire the stove and some stove manuals even warn of the possibility.

 

[MarkC]

I understand (I think) the principles of air flow, configuation of splits etc.
What I don't get is why the hell the air feed for a rectangular box is from the short side...

The Oslo is a really well built stove but I am losing my resolve with battling the engineering issues I am seeing as I get into being a Jotel owner/operator. My old C. Dutch West "Smoke Dragon" had an infinite control of air from the long side which brought the O2 in from the ends of the wood to be burned. I had complete control and could play the stove like a "fiddle". That design allowed air flows along the long sides of the wood and fostered more thorough combustion, as well as quicker response times. My new "EPA certified" Oslo is a Hog when you compare responsiveness. I can barely tell the difference between open and closed with this control lever, plus you need gloves to operate the damn thing if you have a decent fire going (another poor engineering item) IMO.

I am really disapointed in this stove, we have been burning wood to heat this house for 20+ years. This is the most moderate winter I can remember yet the indoor temps have been very meager and I have been spending extra time attending the stove. I really can't see me biting the bullet and selling this stove for a loss but I am not happy with it...

Mark

 

[LLigetfa]

Dunno what to say... maybe you are burning wet Ash?

If you must burn N/S to get it to work, then maybe you have not yet adjusted to the requirements of the stove.

 

[Blue Vomit]

I understand (I think) the principles of air flow, configuation of splits etc.
What I don't get is why the hell the air feed for a rectangular box is from the short side...

I can barely tell the difference between open and closed with this control lever,

I'm certainly no expert, but if you cant see much of a difference between open and closed on the primary air lever, I dont think it is a design flaw. Ive read at least a dozen posts with similar issues that point to poor fuel, inadequate chimney height, uninsulated flue, poor draft, clogged chimney cap, clogged air intake, etc.
Dont give up on the stove, check out everything else first. IMHO start with the wood. My Oslo shows a BIG difference when I feed her DRY, SEASONED wood on a nice coal bed.
Good luck.

 

[Huntindog1]

Make sure your wood is Dry less than 20% moisture.
This is for a East West Load
Rake your coals Forward.
Load up back row of stove with big splits all the way to bottom of stove. Hope fully you can get 3 splits high.
Make sure you load all the way up to about 1 to 2" from the secondaries.
Push coals back against the back row once you get the back row loaded. Do this just enough to level out the coals better.
Load 2nd row of splits on the coals.
Can't tell from the Oslo documentation but looks to be about 14-15" deep box so you should be able to get 2 rows loaded of 4"- 5" Splits.
Leave the row closest to the door open for some good quality 1" kindling.
This front row on hot coals of small stuff will burn hot and fast and get heat up in the stove fast as thats the objective.
Get the heat built up with the good quality kindling and even a fire starter on hot coals before you spend too much time burning the bigger stuff.
This will help as its all about getting the heat built up hot and fast and not burn up your big stuff messing around waiting on the heat to come up.
If you need to add another split to the front row after kindling has burned up and heat is really hot in the stove you can do this with out setting you back too much as once you get the heat built up the stove will take back off pretty fast .
Its all about getting the heat built up in the stove and it will perform.
Lots of fire doesnt always get the heat built up .
Too much draft can keep the stove cool as too much air flow thru the stove , its like having the door cracked.
You crack the door open to get the wood burning but you have to close it to build the heat up, its all about building heat in the stove.
Plus you have to slowly ease the air input closed to restrict the air to build heat.
Its the small kindling on the front row on hot coals that once it burning good will keep burning while your slowly shutting the air down to build heat.
Kindling will burn with less air flow as its small and big splits need alot of air flow to burn and doesnt let heat to build as quick.
Something needing less air flow in the stove such as small split kindling will still burn hot at low air settings its better to build heat.
Good wood like dry white oak has very high btu rating and builds heat faster as it burns much hotter especially when its split small.
So good quality kindling helps your goal of building the heat quickly so as not to burn the big stuff too much which is needed for long burns.

This should help if your wood is slightly high moisture.

 

[firefighterjake]

I understand (I think) the principles of air flow, configuation of splits etc.
What I don't get is why the hell the air feed for a rectangular box is from the short side...

I can barely tell the difference between open and closed with this control lever,

I'm certainly no expert, but if you cant see much of a difference between open and closed on the primary air lever, I dont think it is a design flaw. Ive read at least a dozen posts with similar issues that point to poor fuel, inadequate chimney height, uninsulated flue, poor draft, clogged chimney cap, clogged air intake, etc.
Dont give up on the stove, check out everything else first. IMHO start with the wood. My Oslo shows a BIG difference when I feed her DRY, SEASONED wood on a nice coal bed.
Good luck.

Gotta agree . . . there should be a world of difference with the air control open all the way and with it shut nearly all of the way. In one case you should have lots of flames, but a lot of the heat will be going up the chimney (as can be seen by looking at the chimney thermometer) . . . and in the other case your stove top temp will be going up and you may still have a lot of flames -- but it will be at the top third of the firebox and the flames seen near the wood are "lazy".

I know of only one other person who had issues with his Oslo that could not be addressed through better wood, chimney fix, etc. This is a good stove . . . perhaps giving us more info about the set up, fuel source and how you are running the stove might help might be able to track down possible culprits.

 

[Martin Strand III]

It is both right and good to clear up your questions (N/S v E/W)
since the vast majority of problems and disappointments in
burning wood originate with operator error, not the stove.

Aye,
Marty
Grandma used to say,
"Don't work harder. Work smarter."

 

[tcassavaugh]

mrc...i had an old CDW cat that heated my home for years....a real work horse and great in design and looks (jmho). i got a little jotul f3cb i use upstairs when its not cold enough to burn the summit or both and absolutely love it. its so small, you have to burn e-w but what a little burner and i can't say enough good things about it. i bought the pe summit to replace the CDW and it took a long, long time for me to get used to it. you have to burn that one n-s or it just doesn't go very good. another thing i found out was that the CDW was pretty forgiving when it came to wood (and so is the small jotul) but my summit is not. its worse than a two year old. it knows what it likes and expects you to feed it to it or it throws a fit. that said, once i learned the particulars of it, it (we) seem to be getting along better.
is there any way you can check the draft control. sounds like you might have a problem with that

cass

 

[Wood Duck]

I understand (I think) the principles of air flow, configuation of splits etc.
What I don't get is why the hell the air feed for a rectangular box is from the short side...

I can barely tell the difference between open and closed with this control lever,

I'm certainly no expert, but if you cant see much of a difference between open and closed on the primary air lever, I dont think it is a design flaw. Ive read at least a dozen posts with similar issues that point to poor fuel, inadequate chimney height, uninsulated flue, poor draft, clogged chimney cap, clogged air intake, etc.
Dont give up on the stove, check out everything else first. IMHO start with the wood. My Oslo shows a BIG difference when I feed her DRY, SEASONED wood on a nice coal bed.
Good luck.

I don't want to insult your intelligence but here goes anyway - are you sure you know how to notice difference in the fire that results from the change between high and low air setting? I have a stove that I think is installed right, adequate draft, and my wood is at the very least decent and maybe good/excellent. In short, my setup works properly as far as I know. In my stove I sometimes don't see any immediate or striking differences between air settings. There is a definite difference, but it can be subtle sometimes. In certain circumstances the air from the doghouse (unregulated air that enters below the front door) keeps the fire burning enough that it is a little bit hard to tell the difference between high and low air. Also, the changes in the fire in response to change in air setting can be slow sometimes especially with a cool firebox. I cal tell you that my kids often get confused which way to move the lever for more air versus less air, and the difference in the fire isn't obvious enough for them to figure it out before they decide to come find me to ask.

I guess my point is that maybe your stove is working correctly - changes in the fire caused by changing the air setting can be subtle and slow to happen.

 

[Blue Vomit]

I can barely tell the difference between open and closed with this control lever,

I'm certainly no expert, but if you cant see much of a difference between open and closed on the primary air lever, I dont think it is a design flaw. Ive read at least a dozen posts with similar issues that point to poor fuel, inadequate chimney height, uninsulated flue, poor draft, clogged chimney cap, clogged air intake, etc.
Dont give up on the stove, check out everything else first. IMHO start with the wood. My Oslo shows a BIG difference when I feed her DRY, SEASONED wood on a nice coal bed.
Good luck.

Gotta agree . . . there should be a world of difference with the air control open all the way and with it shut nearly all of the way. In one case you should have lots of flames, but a lot of the heat will be going up the chimney (as can be seen by looking at the chimney thermometer) . . . and in the other case your stove top temp will be going up and you may still have a lot of flames -- but it will be at the top third of the firebox and the flames seen near the wood are "lazy".
.[/quote]

Wood duck,
You won't insult my intelligence, I know I'm no expert. What I can add is my experience with my stove, the same stove as the OP. Everything I have read and experienced is similar to what Jake wrote above. Simply put, more air gives me more flame in the firebox. Less air gives me more secondaries at the top of the firebox. This of course is when I back the air down at the right time. I can see a noticeable difference. If I back the air down too soon, my flames get choked out altogether and practically disappear. Either way, I see a noticeable difference. It's not automatic, it doesn't happen right away, but it is indeed noticeable.
if I didn't notice much of a difference when my air is open all the way or closed, I would think there was something wrong with my set up or something was clogged. But then again, as I said before, I know I'm no expert. I usually learn new things here all the time.

 

[Blue Vomit]

Sorry, quotes got screwed up, I'm no expert on the keyboard either. I was referring to Jakes post #7.

 

[DanCorcoran]

With my (non-cat) Hearthstone, air wide open generates immediate increase in flames, fully closed shuts it all down in a minute or two. This is with a fresh fire. If it has burned down to the coaling stage, you don't see as much difference, but wide open usually generates flames where there were none before.

 

[Wood Duck]

One comment I should add is that with my stove and good firewood I can load either N/S or E/W and get a good burn. It should not be necessary with any stove to load one way or the other if you have good firewood. There is a difference in how the wood burns, but either way should work.

 

[logger]

Not sure why people go to blame the stove right away. There are many happy Oslo burners on the forum. No one can help you unless you give us some specifics pertaining your wood and your setup. My Oslo has been the sole source of heat through 3 winters now and keeps the 2000 sq ft house in the low to mid 70s when its in the singles and teens out. I can almost guarantee its not the stove at fault. I rarely burn n/s in the Oslo except with kindling when I criss cross for start-ups. I split some shorties a few times to burn for regular fires, but wasnt too impressed with the hotter, faster burns. Plus, e/w works just fine for me. I will angle splits a little from time to time, but really have no need to burn n/s in this stove. The air lever should definately show signs of intake in the box when opened and closed... I might start there and check out the doghouse. Also, this stove wont burn green wood like the smoke dragons, gotta be cut, split, and stacked for 1-2 years min. depending on wood and location.

 

[logger]

It should not be necessary with any stove to load one way or the other if you have good firewood. There is a difference in how the wood burns, but either way should work.

These sentences kind of contradicted each other when I read them. Its definately necessary to burn one way or the other depending on the heat you want, at least in the Oslo. The box is longer than deep, so splits must be shorter to burn n/s, therefore you will be loading much more frequently going n/s and your fires will be shorter.

 

[MarkC]

I am sorry if I implied that I was trying to burn N/S, I am not and have not. I only meant to point out that I thought the air feed from the front was counter-productive with the long splits/ most fuel possible when running the opposite. I applied some of the strategy reccomended by Hunting Dog and have seen some decent differences in the burn proggression. Thanks HD.

My wood is not wet, my draft will roar if the air feed allows it and the doghouse is clean and working as designed. I do believe that there should be more control and as said here an "obvious difference" when the control is to the far right...

I am still trying to figure this thing out but I also agree with the reoccurring theme here, it can't be the stove. It is too well put together and proven. I just need to accept the difference in equipment and be more open to change.

Thank you all.

Mark

 

[logger]

I will say this, there was a longer learning curve with this stove than are previous ones. Id keep playing around and finding advice on these threads before getting too discouraged. How long is your pipe and are there any elbows in it?
My fire advice:
Get the stove up to 550-650 stovetop, feeding it very thin splits and leave air wide open or 3/4 open. This initial load should get the draft going and the stove heated up fast. When this burns down a bit, the temp goes down a little, and there is room for some reg size splits, stack the box full and as close to the tubes as possible without hitting them. Be sure you dont plug the space in front of the doghouse with a split and block the air. Keep air open until temps hit the 500s again and then shut her down in 10-15 minute intervals, 1/4 at a time. The secondaries should be roaring when its 3/4 closed and the load should last a good amount of time. When it burns down, open the air full and repeat. Your load size and wood species will give you the varying temps you're trying to achieve.

 

[Wood Duck]

It should not be necessary with any stove to load one way or the other if you have good firewood. There is a difference in how the wood burns, but either way should work.

These sentences kind of contradicted each other when I read them. Its definately necessary to burn one way or the other depending on the heat you want, at least in the Oslo. The box is longer than deep, so splits must be shorter to burn n/s, therefore you will be loading much more frequently going n/s and your fires will be shorter.

So you can burn either N/S or E/W, right? That is my point. Although the burn rate, time between reloading, heat output, etc. will vary depending on how the stove is loaded, it is not necessary to load one way or the other in order for the stove to function. The original post suggested that the poster's stove is designed poorly because it is necessary to load N/S in order to get a good burn. I am suggesting the poster's stove is not designed in a way that requires N/S burning. Yours and mine aren't designed that way. I think the problem is the firewood not the stove.

 

[logger]

Gotcha Wood Duck. Hard to understand things on a computer sometimes. You a duck hunter? Just wondering cuz of your screen name.

 

[LLigetfa]

So you can burn either N/S or E/W, right? That is my point. Although the burn rate, time between reloading, heat output, etc. will vary depending on how the stove is loaded, it is not necessary to load one way or the other in order for the stove to function. The original post suggested that the poster's stove is designed poorly because it is necessary to load N/S in order to get a good burn. I am suggesting the poster's stove is not designed in a way that requires N/S burning. Yours and mine aren't designed that way. I think the problem is the firewood not the stove.

I have a neighbour down the road that likes to burn N/S. I drive by her place every day and saw a truckload of Ash logs sit there for most of the Summer so I stopped by one day and spoke to the husband about it. He told me he has nothing to do with it, that the wife takes care of it and that she burns N/S.

I don't know what she has for a stove but I do know she's not into this well seasoned wood concept. Most folk would want to split it sooner than later but it sat the whole Summer before it got split. Then it got stacked into one huge pile with no spaces between rows and it got covered by a tarp right away. I'm thinking she burns N/S cuz that's the only way it will burn.

To each their own. If one wants to cut wood shorter to burn N/S, that's their prerogative but if they do it to burn wood before its time, a lot of it is wasted.