? of falling clay flue

[salbwil3]

Hi,
I have had my chimney and current fireplace looked at ( heatilator 48 into clay flue in brick chimney) and stove installer is afraid to install the Quad 7100 that I like because of the chance the clay flue will collapse when taking out the heatilator. I can understand his worries, but need to ask the experts here if there is a way to work around this issue so that we can have the fireplace we want instead of his suggestion of an "insert".
Thanks for the help.
salbwil3

 

[salbwil3]

Hello and thanks for the reply.
I believe he stated that the clay flue was "resting" on the top of the heatilator and he's afraid the flue will collapse when the heatilator is cut out for the installation of the Quad and new stainless chimney ( to be installed inside existing flue.) He was pushing to stear me towards an insert instead, but those that may be installed into metal units ( heatilator) don't thrill me looks wise. I'm looking for a traditional fireplace look that will be efficient as far as use is concerned. He did not seem familiar with the Quad 7100 or the brand.
salbwil3

 

[jtp10181]

That clay flue must be huge if he was going to put the venting for a 7100 into it. It needs a 15" x 15" space to go through. It uses SL300 series venting which is 11" OD with 2" airspace clearance all the way around. You can;t use any sort of liner on that unit. The only other venting allowed is Simpson Duravent "Duraplus" which I believe has similar clearance requirements.

 

[salbwil3]

Thanks, jtp,
This is finally an answer; it isn't one I'm liking, but it does solve my problem. I guess I just can't use this fireplace. My clay flue is, I believe 12"....at least that's what the man said after looking up the chimney. That would not allow me to use that fireplace, right ?
Do any of the fireplaces with this "look" use a smaller width chimney?
If I am stuck with using an insert , is the jotul one that I can install into a metal fireplace and cover that awful looking soldier course on the front of the present fireplace? Lots of questions, I know.
salbwil3

 

[jtp10181]

I know the SL300 venting is supposed to have a 2" air space around it for cooling purposes. The duraplus might allow you to install it inside the 12" clay flue since its all non-combustible. The duraplus is an insulation packed venting and is more expensive but it might be allowed. It would sure be a tight fit and if you have any offsets in there it would be near impossible.

 

[begreen]

salbwil have you looked into the Fireplace Xtrodinair FPX33 insert? It looks like that might work well for you.

(broken link removed to http://fireplacex.com/productuide/wood_inserts.aspx)

 

[stoveguy13]

I know the SL300 venting is supposed to have a 2" air space around it for cooling purposes. The duraplus might allow you to install it inside the 12" clay flue since its all non-combustible. The duraplus is an insulation packed venting and is more expensive but it might be allowed. It would sure be a tight fit and if you have any offsets in there it would be near impossible.

the 7100 cant use the duraplus it has to use the sl300 pipe

 

[salbwil3]

Thanks stoveguy13,
Can anyone recommend a fireplace looking stove, like the quad 7100 that will fit into this flue? If I have to use the jotul insert, can the soldier course of bricks and bottom vents on the front of my bricks be covered over with some tile ? The instructions on the Jotul website are somewhat vague ( for me to understand) regarding metal fireplace installations.
salbwil3

 

[begreen]

recommended FPX 33, 2 posts above. It has the arched fireplace look of the 7100.

 

[salbwil3]

Thanks, BeGreen,
I may be wrong, but I think , after reading about that insert , that it must be installed in a masonry fireplace, not a heatilator metal one, like mine. I do like the look...............too bad.
salbwil3

 

[begreen]

Dig a little deeper on their website:
"Our fireplace inserts are basically fireplaces in a metal box that fit into your existing metal or masonry fireplace to transform it into an efficient source of heat."
(broken link removed to http://fireplacex.com/how_it_works/insert.aspx)

 

[salbwil3]

I did like the looks of this insert and so I did "dig a little deeper" If you download the brochure from their website , it states,"the Elite 33 wood insert is designed for installation in masonry fireplaces. DO NOT install in factory built metal fireplaces" What I have in my house is an old factory built heatilator type metal fireplace (48" wide) that is blowing cold air into my living room all winter.
I do thank you for your interest in helping me....I need all the help I can get.
salbwil3

 

[begreen]

Sorry for the confusion. Are you looking at the insert model? They also make fireplaces, but that won't work as noted. The model FPX 33 is the insert model and in the link provided shows how it goes into a metal heatilator style fireplace.

edit - ok, I just downloaded the brochure which directly contradicts the rest of the website info. Let me investigate this a bit.

 

[begreen]

This is pretty bizarre. They even paid a web designer to create a diagram showing it installed in a metal ZC fireplace and state so in multiple places. But you are correct, the actual installation manual says the opposite. I'll contact Travis to let them know there is an issue with the website.

 

[begreen]

Looks like the Jotul or the Hampton inserts or perhaps the Pacific Energy Summit insert are the best options then. Again, my apologies for the confusion. It will be interesting to see what Travis Industries has to say.

 

[webbie]

Make certain that you understand what exactly your Heatilator is! It may be a masonry fireplace with a heatform.

Check this wiki article....
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/wiki/Heatform/

If you have a clay flue tile, then you have what is classified as a masonry fireplace and most any insert should be capable of being installed.

 

[restorer]

Maybe it's my dense head, but I am not following this. I guess local speak doesn't work for me. What is a "clay flue"? Is this a clay tile lined chimney? If it's attached to a heatilator fire box, what are the clearances to combustibles and is the box classed as a ZC box? Can it then accommodate an approved insert for a ZC install? If the pipe is good, can the flue be used as-is, or relined as other chimneys?

It would seem to me that if the chimney is good, and the box has to come out, can a frame work to support the chimney be fabricated, and a smaller, newer ZC box installed and an appropriate insert used? I know this sounds complicated, but I really would like to know what the chimney really is, and can something be tied to it effectively and safely.

 

[restorer]

Web:
This is scary, are we thinking the same thing at the same time and only two thousand miles away? You type faster, so I will have to ruminate faster. :-S

 

[webbie]

With Heatforms, the box is rarely removed for the installation of an insert. This is because the masonry is built up around it, and it would be near impossible....some sweeps do it and replace the thing with a newer interior like Bellfire.

But in this case, the gentleman has what we consider a masonry fireplace....the flue tiles always tell the story.

Clay flue=Masonry
Metal Flue = Pre-fab

99% of the time....

 

[jtp10181]

I know the SL300 venting is supposed to have a 2" air space around it for cooling purposes. The duraplus might allow you to install it inside the 12" clay flue since its all non-combustible. The duraplus is an insulation packed venting and is more expensive but it might be allowed. It would sure be a tight fit and if you have any offsets in there it would be near impossible.

the 7100 cant use the duraplus it has to use the sl300 pipe

Quoted from the 7100 install manual

"This fireplace must be installed with the HTI SL-300 Series Chimney System or Dura-Plus System manufactured by Dura-Vent Systems. NOTE: all drawings and part numbers in this manual refer to the HTI SL-300 Series."

"This fireplace has been tested and listed for use with the SL-300 Series chimney and fireplace components listed on page 7. The Dura-Plus is also an approved venting system manufactured by Dura-Vent Systems."

"If using the Dura-Plus System, the starter ring that came with the fireplace must be removed and replaced with the Dura-Plus Base Plate (Simpson #9201). The CAK4A is not required with a Dura-Plus System."

 

[webbie]

In plain english, it appears that the 7100 is a pre-fab FIREPLACE and not a fireplace insert....at least that seems so from the descriptions above. So back to the drawing board and look for fireplace inserts or hearth stoves.

 

[stoveguy13]

I know the SL300 venting is supposed to have a 2" air space around it for cooling purposes. The duraplus might allow you to install it inside the 12" clay flue since its all non-combustible. The duraplus is an insulation packed venting and is more expensive but it might be allowed. It would sure be a tight fit and if you have any offsets in there it would be near impossible.

the 7100 cant use the duraplus it has to use the sl300 pipe

Quoted from the 7100 install manual

"This fireplace must be installed with the HTI SL-300 Series Chimney System or Dura-Plus System manufactured by Dura-Vent Systems. NOTE: all drawings and part numbers in this manual refer to the HTI SL-300 Series."

"This fireplace has been tested and listed for use with the SL-300 Series chimney and fireplace components listed on page 7. The Dura-Plus is also an approved venting system manufactured by Dura-Vent Systems."

"If using the Dura-Plus System, the starter ring that came with the fireplace must be removed and replaced with the Dura-Plus Base Plate (Simpson #9201). The CAK4A is not required with a Dura-Plus System."

found it on page 14 thanks

 

[salbwil3]

This is getting to be sooooo interesting; maybe I'll get something I would like anyway. To clarify matters ( maybe): I have posted pictures back some months ago, but don't know how to bring them from your archives to the present, but maybe someone there does. I think, from the way Mr. Issod describes it, I have a metal fireplace into a clay chimney. I do know that the flue is clay tiles and the chimney holds three flues ( fireplace is the only working one now, and seems to be in good shape). Elk suggested maybe making some kind of a brace to hold up the clay flue when the metal unit is removed and the new fireplace installed. All this is scaring my husband who is thinking that an insert is the ONLY way to go now. Of course, being stubborn, I want my fireplace.
salbwil3

 

[begreen]

Here is a link to your earlier post with the picture at the bottom of the page:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/7075/

The best thing might be to pick out your favorite insert and have the dealer come out and determine whether the unit can fit and be installed.

 

[salbwil3]

I surrender ! I will have to decide which of the flush type inserts has the largest viewing area.Thanks to you people I now know I can pretty much pick what looks best to me . I do like the "Declaration" and the "33 Elite" . Are there others like these and which has the larger windows?
salbwil3