Offsetting Fossil Fuel Oil With Bioheat vs Wood

[NoGoodAtScreenNames]

I’m thinking of changing my oil provider to someone who offers a higher bio heat blend (50%). In theory everything sounds good - cleaner burning, more renewable. Downsides seem manageable - changing filter a little more during the transition as the tank sludge gets cleaned out and potentially different seals in the supply lines if they start failing earlier.

From an environmental point of view, I’ve always thought wood burning was more renewable than oil though not perfect. Seems bioheat is more renewable than oil though not perfect and is probably more efficient than a wood stove. How does offsetting half my oil with bio heat compare to offsetting that oil with wood. I’m not going to stop burning wood, but what oil I do burn will be cleaner / more renewable.

That being said, the stuff I’ve read has all been from people selling bio heat - sometimes a bit over the top and a lot of shade throwing at heat pumps. So what’s the truth and what’s the hype?

 

[ToastyRanch]

I’m thinking of changing my oil provider to someone who offers a higher bio heat blend (50%). In theory everything sounds good - cleaner burning, more renewable. Downsides seem manageable - changing filter a little more during the transition as the tank sludge gets cleaned out and potentially different seals in the supply lines if they start failing earlier.

From an environmental point of view, I’ve always thought wood burning was more renewable than oil though not perfect. Seems bioheat is more renewable than oil though not perfect and is probably more efficient than a wood stove. How does offsetting half my oil with bio heat compare to offsetting that oil with wood. I’m not going to stop burning wood, but what oil I do burn will be cleaner / more renewable.

That being said, the stuff I’ve read has all been from people selling bio heat - sometimes a bit over the top and a lot of shade throwing at heat pumps. So what’s the truth and what’s the hype?

So I take it you’re already using a blend but a lower proportion of biofuel? Did you notice anything when you switched? What are the BTUs per gallon advertised for biofuel? Your recent approximate cost per gallon in MA? Cost of the new proposal fuel product? Thanks.

 

[NoGoodAtScreenNames]

Haven’t officially changed over yet. My current provider has a low percentage - something like 5%. I think most companies around here are at least a small blend as it’s being encouraged / eventually mandated by MA, though some of the discount places like Haffners are still 100% fossil fuel.

I’m switching mostly due to the maintenance service being subpar. From what I’ve read the bio heat is equivalent in btus and is more efficient and easier on the equipment (other than some of the sealants that are designed for petroleum). I guess that’s the rub of my question. Is that all true?

 

[ABMax24]

Where is your oil stored? Biodiesel has a higher gel point than normal diesel does and this may be a concern if it gets cold and is stored outside.

Around here we are in theory limited to 20% biodiesel to avoid cold-gelling issues, but I don't know of a supplier that exceeds the mandatory 5% biodiesel content.

 

[ToastyRanch]

Where is your oil stored? Biodiesel has a higher gel point than normal diesel does and this may be a concern if it gets cold and is stored outside.

Around here we are in theory limited to 20% biodiesel to avoid cold-gelling issues, but I don't know of a supplier that exceeds the mandatory 5% biodiesel content.

I’ve never heard of households storing domestic heating oil outdoors. I’m close enough to the water to occasionally get sea spray, so on account of corrosion, I can’t imagine outside would be a good idea anywhere near me…. Likewise, if it were cold enough to gel in the tank in my basement, it would be on account of a power outage, which would mean there’d be no electricity for powering the boiler ignition or controllers or water circulator pumps, so it wouldn’t matter if the fuel were gelled. Might be worth knowing about if one had 50% biofuel even stored indoors if coming off of a prolonged outage…. I too haven’t heard of anyone doing more than 5% around here, so I’ll be curious if the OP tries it out.

 

[ABMax24]

I’ve never heard of households storing domestic heating oil outdoors. I’m close enough to the water to occasionally get sea spray, so on account of corrosion, I can’t imagine outside would be a good idea anywhere near me…. Likewise, if it were cold enough to gel in the tank in my basement, it would be on account of a power outage, which would mean there’d be no electricity for powering the boiler ignition or controllers or water circulator pumps, so it wouldn’t matter if the fuel were gelled. Might be worth knowing about if one had 50% biofuel even stored indoors if coming off of a prolonged outage…. I too haven’t heard of anyone doing more than 5% around here, so I’ll be curious if the OP tries it out.

Heating oil isn't used around here anymore, but when it was it was always stored in outdoor tanks, being the reason I was wondering where it was stored. -40 could be a problem for gelling the fuel lines.

 

[woodgeek]

HHO tanks were routinely installed outdoors in Pennsylvania, often underground.

My house had one installed at construction in 1960. The practice is now banned, bc when they leak.... Mine was replaced with an indoor tank before I bought the house (and the old one dug out with a lot of contaminated soil at high expense). Now that indoor one is gone too.

I had an older neighbor whose oil line to his outdoor tank routinely 'froze' or gelled during very cold weather. Years ago, but a PITA.

 

[peakbagger]

Bio heat is just fossil heating oil with some blend of biodiesel. There is poor regulation of the name biofuel so find out what the actual blend is. In theory one drop of biodiesel in a 10,000 gallons of fossil heating oil may be advertised as "Biodiesel". So make sure what the blend is. I think the former Presby Plant in Dalton NH was bought by fuel oil distributor in Mass and I think their blend was 10% but they could effectively sell any percent blend the buyer wanted. The Cog railroad on Mt Washington heavily advertises that they only use "green" biodiesel to run the diesel cogs but what they are actually running is 10% biodiesel and the rest fossil.

Biodiesel can come from many sources and in some cases at higher blends it can affect the viscosity of oil at lower temps usually a non issue with basement tanks but possibly an issue with an outdoor tank. Do not underestimate the fuel filter issue when swapping an older system over. It can require several years to really clean out the system and every tank fill can stir things up. If you are a DIY person plan on buying several filters at Home Depot and changing them out frequently over the first season. At least a couple of techs I ran into suggested that making the swap was best done after a fuel oil tank replacement which is the primary source of contaminants. At a minimum I would suggest that a homeowner has 24 hour service plan in place on the rare chance that they need service.

BTW some oil companies were already adding a very small blend of biodiesel to their heating oil to scavenge some of the crap out of the home as well as their bulk tanks. Biodiesel is also repackaged as a diesel additive to improve the lubricity of diesel for older diesel engines now that low sulfur diesel is the only fuel available

When biodiesel was first rolling out in VT it could be bought in very high blends up to 100%. A coworker and his wife were very green and went with 100%. He traveled on occasion and would leave his them pregnant wife home with a couple of toddlers. I think he had to talk his fairly capable wife over the phone into doing a filter and nozzle change on their heating system when it stopped working in very cold weather.

 

[Brian26]

I’m thinking of changing my oil provider to someone who offers a higher bio heat blend (50%). In theory everything sounds good - cleaner burning, more renewable. Downsides seem manageable - changing filter a little more during the transition as the tank sludge gets cleaned out and potentially different seals in the supply lines if they start failing earlier.

From an environmental point of view, I’ve always thought wood burning was more renewable than oil though not perfect. Seems bioheat is more renewable than oil though not perfect and is probably more efficient than a wood stove. How does offsetting half my oil with bio heat compare to offsetting that oil with wood. I’m not going to stop burning wood, but what oil I do burn will be cleaner / more renewable.

That being said, the stuff I’ve read has all been from people selling bio heat - sometimes a bit over the top and a lot of shade throwing at heat pumps. So what’s the truth and what’s the hype?

What kind of tank do you have now? Might be worth upgrading the tank to a biofuel setup. I had a Roth double walled tank installed last year with a tigerloop with a 10 micron spin on filter. The Roth inner tank is polyethylene and is biofuel rated and the tigerloop is as well. You can get a biofuel rated 10 micron spin on filter as well for the tigerloop.

I replaced a 1958 275 gallon tank in my basement last year and paid $2750 for it installed. If your tank is old and metal in your basement might be worth it for the safety upgrade as well. The Roth tanks are doubled walled so if the inner tank leaks the outer tank can hold 110% of the inside tank. A heating oil tank leaking in a basement is a huge environmental mess and can cost a fortune to clean up.

 

[peakbagger]

BTW , Home Depot sells a competitor to Roth. If you are capable of DIY they cost less https://www.homedepot.com/p/Double-...2-in-1-Tank-with-Accessories-961226/207175402 Its important to note that this is pretty large DIY project and will require converting the fuel line to an overhead design instead of gravity and reworking the fill lines which requires messing with large threaded piping. In most cases folks have a heating company do it as they have the equipment to pump out the old tank and dispose of it.

 

[ToastyRanch]

What kind of tank do you have now? Might be worth upgrading the tank to a biofuel setup. I had a Roth double walled tank installed last year with a tigerloop with a 10 micron spin on filter. The Roth inner tank is polyethylene and is biofuel rated and the tigerloop is as well. You can get a biofuel rated 10 micron spin on filter as well for the tigerloop.

I replaced a 1958 275 gallon tank in my basement last year and paid $2750 for it installed. If your tank is old and metal in your basement might be worth it for the safety upgrade as well. The Roth tanks are doubled walled so if the inner tank leaks the outer tank can hold 110% of the inside tank. A heating oil tank leaking in a basement is a huge environmental mess and can cost a fortune to clean up.

View attachment 286936

I just got a Roth tank last year. This part of my oil setup looks exactly like yours. The tank even says on it “for fuel oil and other combustible liquids.” It’s actually rated for indoor or outdoor use, which I hadn’t noticed until this discussion.

What does your tiger loop look like? Can you post a photo? If I’m remembering correctly from my conversation with the installer from a year ago…. I think my installer said he didn’t think a tiger loop was necessary in our setup, but that we were to call him if it was malfunctioning, and then he would install one right away. So now I’m wondering if I’d need one prior to switching to a product containing any amount of biofuel.

 

[Brian26]

I just got a Roth tank last year. This part of my oil setup looks exactly like yours. The tank even says on it “for fuel oil and other combustible liquids.” It’s actually rated for indoor or outdoor use, which I hadn’t noticed until this discussion.

What does your tiger loop look like? Can you post a photo? If I’m remembering correctly from my conversation with the installer from a year ago…. I think my installer said he didn’t think a tiger loop was necessary in our setup, but that we were to call him if it was malfunctioning, and then he would install one right away. So now I’m wondering if I’d need one prior to switching to a product containing any amount of biofuel.

Here is the tigerloop. Its a really awesome device that eliminates the traditional 2 pipe return/ supply setup. It deaerates the fuel and it also raises the temperature of the oil before its sent to the nozzle by the constant circulation. You also get 10 micron filtration which will keep your nozzle really clean.

 

[EbS-P]

My thoughts on blended bio oil vs wood are these. I think you need to set some parameters for “best” . Lowest particulate emissions, lowest total CO2 emissions? I don’t think it’s a straightforward assessment. I’m going to just guess that as long as the firewood was sourced semi locally it would have the lowest co2 emissions. Probably higher (much higher?) particulate emissions.

I don’t see how bio fuel production can can have lower CO2 production emissions than wood burning.
I absolutely think heatpumps are a great heating appliance and should be utilized knowing that when it’s really cold you need a second heat source. I did not use my heatpump really at all for 2 winters. Now it just seems silly to be lighting a fire when it’s in the 50s and above outside. I could say the same for any oil burner bio or not.

So if your goal is to make the best environmentally friendly decisions the less oil you use the better. The less wood you burn the better. (Heatpump for the win) but if and more realistically when you burn oil it’s better to burn bio oil if only to financially support the companies who are producing it and reduce your fossil fuel consumption. My gut feeling is that wood burned conscientiously in a 4 g/hr or less EPA stove has a smaller environmental impact that 50/50 bio oil. If I lived in an area with questionable air quality I probably would burn more oil.

 

[ToastyRanch]

Here is the tigerloop. Its a really awesome device that eliminates the traditional 2 pipe return/ supply setup. It deaerates the fuel and it also raises the temperature of the oil before its sent to the nozzle by the constant circulation. You also get 10 micron filtration which will keep your nozzle really clean.

View attachment 286947

Thanks for the photo and the explanation of the tigerloop’s purpose. Memory is such a funny thing. I know I’ve seen one before but I’m not home right now and I have no idea if I’ve seen one in my own setup. I’ll look into it. Much appreciated.

 

[peakbagger]

I think the deal with biofuel is that its an easy drop in. We need that, not all of us want to do physical work to burn wood or pellets. Sure mini splits are great and I use one for shoulder season but if the power goes it is not an option. It does not take much of generator to fire a fuel oil boiler and 275 gallons will cover even major power outages. Grandma and grandpa may be fine living at home but add in wood heat and they are in assisted living. 275 gallons is lot of stored KWhrs so it effectively a cheap thermal battery. The tough part is was when I was looking at this tech 10 years ago, the price of oil needed to be a consistent 10o to 120 dollars per barrel to get investors interested. BTW, I did the first conversion of hospital in the US to Renewable Fuel oil a few years ago. Its not heating oil but it is a bio based liquid fuel.There was a learning curve and its not cheap but it runs and they are happy with it. Bates College in Lewiston Maine heats their campus with it. It makes zero sense when oil is cheap, but no carbon taxes and no drilling. The tech has been around for 30 years and its not that hard to build a plant. Basically site the plant next to a large sawmill or pulp and paper mill and use the crap the mill does not want. There is surplus of low grade wood in the woods that is just rotting, make a new market for it and there are plenty of folks who will pick it up and supply it.

Liquid fuel oil is always going to be needed for air travel. Sure batteries may nibble at the edges but flying is inherently a fuel thirsty project. United just ran a flight with one engine running 100% synthetic fuel made from crops https://www.spglobal.com/platts/en/...launches-first-commercial-flight-with-100-saf. If folks can remember the country prior to unconventional drilling techniques, the US was looking at biofuels big time along with drilling along the Atlantic. DOE did a fairly large study and concluded that the Northenr Forest that roughly runs along the US Canadian Border could supply 1/3 of current transportation fuel (long before EVs factored in) as long as it was agressively managed similar to what is happening in the southeast. I cant support making biofuel to support a single rider commuting to work everyday when EVs now are just as good but I would support getting our jet fuel with no drop in equivalent from biomass.

 

[ToastyRanch]

My thoughts on blended bio oil vs wood are these. I think you need to set some parameters for “best” . Lowest particulate emissions, lowest total CO2 emissions? I don’t think it’s a straightforward assessment. I’m going to just guess that as long as the firewood was sourced semi locally it would have the lowest co2 emissions. Probably higher (much higher?) particulate emissions.

I don’t see how bio fuel production can can have lower CO2 production emissions than wood burning.
I absolutely think heatpumps are a great heating appliance and should be utilized knowing that when it’s really cold you need a second heat source. I did not use my heatpump really at all for 2 winters. Now it just seems silly to be lighting a fire when it’s in the 50s and above outside. I could say the same for any oil burner bio or not.

So if your goal is to make the best environmentally friendly decisions the less oil you use the better. The less wood you burn the better. (Heatpump for the win) but if and more realistically when you burn oil it’s better to burn bio oil if only to financially support the companies who are producing it and reduce your fossil fuel consumption. My gut feeling is that wood burned conscientiously in a 4 g/hr or less EPA stove has a smaller environmental impact that 50/50 bio oil. If I lived in an area with questionable air quality I probably would burn more oil.

@EbS-P remind me…. You have a heat pump a wood stove and a wood insert? Anything else? What do you do for hot water? Typically my standby heat loss from my oil based indirect hot water heater (hot water loop off of the boiler inside the hot water heater) is enough when combined with solar gain to completely heat my house when the weather is in the 50s. Yesterday it was 50s and raining and had been colder for days prior, so we did need to boost a little bit with oil. But we’re talking roughly 10K BTU in total per 24hrs (NOT per hour) for heat and hot water.

In addition to the typical reasons for wanting to do wood burning, I’m looking to supplement with wood in my north facing living/dining room because it’s hard to get them warm enough via the oil forced hot water loop without overheating my south facing kitchen. Unfortunately not solvable by relocating the thermostat. We want to replace some living room windows soon which will help.

 

[EbS-P]

@EbS-P remind me…. You have a heat pump a wood stove and a wood insert? Anything else? What do you do for hot water? Typically my standby heat loss from my oil based indirect hot water heater (hot water loop off of the boiler inside the hot water heater) is enough when combined with solar gain to completely heat my house when the weather is in the 50s. Yesterday it was 50s and raining and had been colder for days prior, so we did need to boost a little bit with oil. But we’re talking roughly 10K BTU in total per 24hrs (NOT per hour) for heat and hot water.

In addition to the typical reasons for wanting to do wood burning, I’m looking to supplement with wood in my north facing living/dining room because it’s hard to get them warm enough via the oil forced hot water loop without overheating my south facing kitchen. Unfortunately not solvable by relocating the thermostat. We want to replace some living room windows soon which will help.

80 gallon Heatpump hot water heater in basement. Short story. House was 2000 sq ft upstairs. 600 sq ft in-law apartment downstairs with a walk out basement and 2 car garage next to that. We have a 2009 16 seer 3 ton package unit. It’s not sized correctly for the now 3100 sq ft of living space. It cools fine but with the duct losses in an uninsulated vented crawl space it is really undersized. Hurricane Florence left so much wood it was easier to cut and split for firewood than drag out to street. A work bonus was spent on a stove.

We converted the garage to open living space. Last year. Heatpump is very undersized for 3100 sq ft it heats now. It does fine down to about high 30s. Got a quote for another mini split in the new basement space it was 6k and I decided an insert makes since as I already have firewood. It probably will see 10 loads a month Dec-February. Keeps kids from putting toys in the fireplace.

I haven’t paid for firewood and I have 5 cords. Just from what neighbors set out and what I can get from tree services doing work that I can hear from my house.

I might add a mr cool diy 12k btu mini spit to basement. Just for convenience. Solar just isn’t in the cards unless I take out many trees.

 

[ToastyRanch]

I think the deal with biofuel is that its an easy drop in. We need that, not all of us want to do physical work to burn wood or pellets. Sure mini splits are great and I use one for shoulder season but if the power goes it is not an option. It does not take much of generator to fire a fuel oil boiler and 275 gallons will cover even major power outages. Grandma and grandpa may be fine living at home but add in wood heat and they are in assisted living. 275 gallons is lot of stored KWhrs so it effectively a cheap thermal battery. The tough part is was when I was looking at this tech 10 years ago, the price of oil needed to be a consistent 10o to 120 dollars per barrel to get investors interested. BTW, I did the first conversion of hospital in the US to Renewable Fuel oil a few years ago. Its not heating oil but it is a bio based liquid fuel.There was a learning curve and its not cheap but it runs and they are happy with it. Bates College in Lewiston Maine heats their campus with it. It makes zero sense when oil is cheap, but no carbon taxes and no drilling. The tech has been around for 30 years and its not that hard to build a plant. Basically site the plant next to a large sawmill or pulp and paper mill and use the crap the mill does not want. There is surplus of low grade wood in the woods that is just rotting, make a new market for it and there are plenty of folks who will pick it up and supply it.

Liquid fuel oil is always going to be needed for air travel. Sure batteries may nibble at the edges but flying is inherently a fuel thirsty project. United just ran a flight with one engine running 100% synthetic fuel made from crops https://www.spglobal.com/platts/en/...launches-first-commercial-flight-with-100-saf. If folks can remember the country prior to unconventional drilling techniques, the US was looking at biofuels big time along with drilling along the Atlantic. DOE did a fairly large study and concluded that the Northenr Forest that roughly runs along the US Canadian Border could supply 1/3 of current transportation fuel (long before EVs factored in) as long as it was agressively managed similar to what is happening in the southeast. I cant support making biofuel to support a single rider commuting to work everyday when EVs now are just as good but I would support getting our jet fuel with no drop in equivalent from biomass.

@peakbagger you made many interesting points. I am new to living away from an urban area and I’ve been getting a crash course in emergency off grid heating by reading on this website. I have oil forced hot water for the first time in my life. I would like to know a bit more about backup generators for an oil system. Is it possible to share the oil from the oil tank to power the backup generator? Seems like you wouldn’t really want a separate fuel oil container outside. When I was poking around online briefly just now it seemed like a typical automatic transfer switch generator uses natural gas or LP. Any pragmatic advice appreciated…. Right now I’m thinking starting with replacing open fireplace with something wood burning and EPA certified and then get LP fireplace backup for my guest room/home office addition and also use LP for a backup generator.

 

[NoGoodAtScreenNames]

Easy drop in is definitely a selling point they use to encourage the switch. The company I’m considering uses the “BioHeat” brand and all they sell is the 50% blend. I would probably use them for service as well and I’m sure they are familiar with the transition process.

I’d be comfortable changing the filter, though getting a walk through from the tech before I do it for the first time would be good.

The guy who patched up the boiler for me this year recommended a tiger loop as well (but he doesn’t install them himself). That might be something to consider as the old gravity feed was a bit gunked up.

Tank is in the basement, nice and warm. I assume it’s native to the house so it’s probably at least 30 years old. I’m in no mood to swap out my oil tank unless absolutely necessary though. That wouldn’t seem like an easy drop in.

 

[ToastyRanch]

80 gallon Heatpump hot water heater in basement. Short story. House was 2000 sq ft upstairs. 600 sq ft in-law apartment downstairs with a walk out basement and 2 car garage next to that. We have a 2009 16 seer 3 ton package unit. It’s not sized correctly for the now 3100 sq ft of living space. It cools fine but with the duct losses in an uninsulated vented crawl space it is really undersized. Hurricane Florence left so much wood it was easier to cut and split for firewood than drag out to street. A work bonus was spent on a stove.

We converted the garage to open living space. Last year. Heatpump is very undersized for 3100 sq ft it heats now. It does fine down to about high 30s. Got a quote for another mini split in the new basement space it was 6k and I decided an insert makes since as I already have firewood. It probably will see 10 loads a month Dec-February. Keeps kids from putting toys in the fireplace.

I haven’t paid for firewood and I have 5 cords. Just from what neighbors set out and what I can get from tree services doing work that I can hear from my house.

I might add a mr cool diy 12k btu mini spit to basement. Just for convenience. Solar just isn’t in the cards unless I take out many trees.

It can be so helpful to “talk” to people in other parts of the country about what is customary. Heat pumps are just beginning to be mainstream where I live. A few months ago I helped my dad select a new heat pump for his condominium. It’s rare enough that both quotes came out initially for AC units only without the reversing valves and I had to correct them. Anyway his condo is only about 1200 sq ft and is ducted. The majority of heat pumps here are in ductless installations. As a result, in both cases I’ve only heard about one unit covering roughly that same 1200 sq feet as a maximum. Didn’t realize one could possibly size one unit for 3100 sq feet for residential property…. We purchased our house complete with a brand new oil boiler, so we’re trying to optimize it and add whatever backup heat and add-on AC options that will make sense. I’d love to have a heat pump water heater in the summer, so I could turn off my boiler completely, but so far I need to use other means to optimize hot water costs and minimize excess summertime basement heat.

If I’m understanding you correctly your heat pump is able to provide dehumidification of your lower level, even though the ductwork for it goes through an unconditioned crawl space? That’s impressive.

 

[NoGoodAtScreenNames]

Heat pumps have a big fan that you can attach to a vent and send wherever you want it. You could choose where to pull and exhaust from.

Here is Mass we have damp basements and the water heater acts as a dehumidifier. The heater performs best with warm damp air (damp air holds more heat). In winter is hot and dry down there from the boiler. So I’m heating with some waste here from there. I don’t need my basement to be 80F in January.

 

[EbS-P]

It can be so helpful to “talk” to people in other parts of the country about what is customary. Heat pumps are just beginning to be mainstream where I live. A few months ago I helped my dad select a new heat pump for his condominium. It’s rare enough that both quotes came out initially for AC units only without the reversing valves and I had to correct them. Anyway his condo is only about 1200 sq ft and is ducted. The majority of heat pumps here are in ductless installations. As a result, in both cases I’ve only heard about one unit covering roughly that same 1200 sq feet as a maximum. Didn’t realize one could possibly size one unit for 3100 sq feet for residential property…. We purchased our house complete with a brand new oil boiler, so we’re trying to optimize it and add whatever backup heat and add-on AC options that will make sense. I’d love to have a heat pump water heater in the summer, so I could turn off my boiler completely, but so far I need to use other means to optimize hot water costs and minimize excess summertime basement heat.

If I’m understanding you correctly your heat pump is able to provide dehumidification of your lower level, even though the ductwork for it goes through an unconditioned crawl space? That’s impressive.

The heatpump water heater in the basement acts as a dehumidifier.
Edit**** it is NOT ducted out if the room it’s in. But I have a duct kit that puts the intake at the ceiling and exhaust down at floor level. *****

Before it we ran two 70 pint and dumped them every day now we dump one every two days. The hvac heatpump is a two stage system with variable speed blower. I think it’s set to 350 cfm/ton It has settings to that reduce blower speed for first 5 minutes on first stage to allow the coil to stay colder increasing the dehumidification.

Complicating everything is the fact that there is no air return in the basement. Ductwork is original to 1965 and needs replaced. And I have a 17’ double pane glass garage door. All in all I have a very unique space and layout add to that I heat with wood in the south.
If I could design the perfect system I would have two zones ducted(upstairs and downstairs) with a 12k btu mini split in the basement to provide extra heat during the winter for the room with the frat age door and provide dehumidification in the summer. But that’s probably a +20k$ install.

We have family in southern Maine. Oil boiler, F400 wood stove for backup heat. They could really benefit from an 18kbtu two head mini split. Master Bedroom and dining/family room. And a standby generator. They are over 80 and need AC.

If it was my house I would do ground mount solar. Add two 2 head mini splits, Probably heatpump water heater, but keep thi oil boiler and swap for pellet boiler when it needed replaced and swap the f400 for a larger rear vent stove. I don’t know if an insert would work. BK Princess if it did.

 

[ToastyRanch]

Heat pumps have a big fan that you can attach to a vent and send wherever you want it. You could choose where to pull and exhaust from.

Here is Mass we have damp basements and the water heater acts as a dehumidifier. The heater performs best with warm damp air (damp air holds more heat). In winter is hot and dry down there from the boiler. So I’m heating with some waste here from there. I don’t need my basement to be 80F in January.

Let me echo back what you’re saying and see if I’m understanding you correctly @NoGoodAtScreenNames. I think you’re saying that you’re running a heat pump water heater in the same basement area in which you’ve also got an oil burning heating system? You are powering down your oil burner in the summer? Furthermore, in summer your heat pump water heater is a vigorous dehumidification system as well as water heater, such that you don’t typically need to run a separate dehumidifier? And that you don’t mind running both machines in the winter because your oil burner generates so much residual heat in the air that you don’t mind transferring some of it from your air to your heat pump water heater? I’m assuming you’re slightly exaggerating for effect and your basement wouldn’t be 80F without the heat pump? It would be useful to have a clearer sense of the real numbers involved. Our basement is currently only about two or three degrees F cooler than our upstairs in our hydronic heated ranch. We’re just getting the hang of this house but I’m potentially persuadable that we might benefit from a heat pump water heater if I can get a clearer sense of the volume of summer humidity and winter heat that’s going to be removed.

 

[ToastyRanch]

The heatpump water heater in the basement acts as a dehumidifier.
Edit**** it is NOT ducted out if the room it’s in. But I have a duct kit that puts the intake at the ceiling and exhaust down at floor level. *****

Before it we ran two 70 pint and dumped them every day now we dump one every two days. The hvac heatpump is a two stage system with variable speed blower. I think it’s set to 350 cfm/ton It has settings to that reduce blower speed for first 5 minutes on first stage to allow the coil to stay colder increasing the dehumidification.

Complicating everything is the fact that there is no air return in the basement. Ductwork is original to 1965 and needs replaced. And I have a 17’ double pane glass garage door. All in all I have a very unique space and layout add to that I heat with wood in the south.
If I could design the perfect system I would have two zones ducted(upstairs and downstairs) with a 12k btu mini split in the basement to provide extra heat during the winter for the room with the frat age door and provide dehumidification in the summer. But that’s probably a +20k$ install.

We have family in southern Maine. Oil boiler, F400 wood stove for backup heat. They could really benefit from an 18kbtu two head mini split. Master Bedroom and dining/family room. And a standby generator. They are over 80 and need AC.

If it was my house I would do ground mount solar. Add two 2 head mini splits, Probably heatpump water heater, but keep thi oil boiler and swap for pellet boiler when it needed replaced and swap the f400 for a larger rear vent stove. I don’t know if an insert would work. BK Princess if it did.

@EbS-P I was under the impression that a pellet boiler would be a lot more work and potentially therefore unmanageable for elderly compared with an oil boiler? But I’ve only seen an ancient one which looked to me like Jabba the Hutt 😉

 

[EbS-P]

@EbS-P I was under the impression that a pellet boiler would be a lot more work and potentially therefore unmanageable for elderly compared with an oil boiler? But I’ve only seen an ancient one which looked to me like Jabba the Hutt 😉

Pellet would be if I lived there. Don’t change anything for the elderly if you can help it.