Ok, what do I need to make my saw cut better?

[nola mike]

Bought a Husqvarna 450 with a 20" bar last year so that I wouldn't be tempted to use my inherited 40 yo John Deere. Well, I thought it cut OK. Until I used the Deere. Man, that thing kicked the crap out of the Husky. I still don't want to use it because of the lack of chain brake, and the Husky starts easily and has nice manners. But I need some more power. I'm going to start with a new chain. The different types are making my head spin, so maybe you guys can help me figure out what's on there now (and on the Deere) and what I need. Also was looking at getting a shorter bar--how much of a difference would going to an 18 or 16 make? Here's a pic of what's on the JD; the Husqvarna is the stock chain.

 

[dougand3]

Going from 20" to 16" on a 50cc saw will make saw cut way better. Go to
http://www.oregonproducts.com/pro/lookups/selguide.aspx?BusId=OCS&SellReg=USA&LangId=ENG
look at the options for Husky 450.
The JD bar looks like reg 3/8 - maybe LGX chain. What is JD model #?

 

[woodhog73]

Not knowing what size your 40 yo saw is it's impossible to compare. I'll take your word that it cuts better. Also can't make out much in the picture.

Your Husky would be best suited to a 16 or 18 inch bar set up in .325 pitch chain. You will find .325 used on 55cc and smaller saws because it's a much lighter chain than 3/8 pitch normally found on bigger saws.

My guess is if your saws stock, the 20inch chain is .325. I'm also guessing it's safety chain which is also called low kick back chain. Any new saw sold 55cc or less I believe is legally required to come with safety chain. This chain does not cut that well. I've used it and while being a low kick back chain that's great for safety, it cuts slow. I won't ever use it. It sucks actually. But if your new to chainsaws I suppose it has it's place.

So.....first I'd replace the chain with something faster cutting. Stihl RS ( yellow link) or Oregon LPX ( no LGX option in .325 that I'm aware of ) Both fast cutting non safety chain. Stihl chain stays sharper longer I'm sure it's harder metal but Oregons LPX in .325 is far smoother cutting and in my experience easier to hand file ( softer metal )

If your still not happy then use above chains but go to an 18 inch set up or even better 16 inch.

But if your old saw is a 70cc or 80cc saw forget it your never going to get your small husky to perform at that level. But I don't know what your old saw is.

 

[nola mike]

I buried a link in my first post to specs on the JD...
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/have-a-crush-on-my-new-chainsaw.146794/

 

[TreePointer]

While the older saws didn't have the high rpms, they surely had good torque on the low end. That's one difference you may be running into.

As others have mentioned, a modern 50cc saw does well with a 16" bar, but won't keep rpm's when you get much of a 20" bar in wood. Most modern Husqvarna 50cc saws I've seen have a narrow kerf (NK) bar with matching NK chain. Husqvarna calls this "Pixel" chain or "H30." This is just rebadged Oregon 95VP chain.

As mentioned above, set aside that Pixel chain and put a full chisel (not semi-chisel) chain on a shorter bar. That would be Stihl RS or Oregon LPX. I run my 50cc saw (Husqvarna 346XP) with the original 16" Husqvarna NK bar and Stihl RS chain (all in .325 pitch).

IMPORTANT NOTE:
NK chain on NK bar = OK
Standard kerf chain on NK bar = OK
NK chain on Standard Kerf bar = NEVER

 

[Jon1270]

I run 3/8LP chain on a 16" bar on my 026, and it's great. You can get a lot done with a 16" bar if it cuts so well that you don't mind coming at larger pieces from both sides once in a while. Sadly I don't think you'll find a 3/8LP bar and sprocket for your saw. I liked 95VP on a Husky 350 I used to have, but I didn't keep that saw long enough to give it a thorough assessment.

You might also get some easy improvements by modifying the muffler, pulling the carb limiters and tuning it properly.

When sharpening, don't forget to maintain the rakers.

 

[coreboy83]

Following. I have the same saw and questions about its peformance

 

[Jon1270]

Not knowing what size your 40 yo saw is it's impossible to compare.

It's only 45cc (ish): model profile.

 

[Jon1270]

Also, it would help if the OP said more about how his 450 is behaving. 'Needs more power' might imply all sorts of issues that need to be addressed differently.

 

[Dairyman]

IMPORTANT NOTE:
NK chain on NK bar = OK
Standard kerf chain on NK bar = OK
NK chain on Standard Kerf bar = NEVER

Be sure to check clearance when using a standard chain on a NK bar.

 

[Jon1270]

Be sure to check clearance when using a standard chain on a NK bar.

Clearance?

 

[jatoxico]

Agree w/ Jon who recommended tuning. I bought the tool and made a pretty big difference with my little Husky. From everything I read they come lean to meet emissions. This can not only rob power but also cause premature failure. My 2 cents.

 

[Dairyman]

Clearance?

Bar is thinner. Chain might rub on something.

 

[Jon1270]

Bar is thinner. Chain might rub on something.

Nah.

 

[woodhog73]

Also, it would help if the OP said more about how his 450 is behaving. 'Needs more power' might imply all sorts of issues that need to be addressed differently.

Agree. Lots of possibilities but I'm still guessing it comes down to the chain. Could be dull, bad sharpening , also like you pointed out earlier to keep rakers filed, could be rakers.

Put on a new full chisel chain such as the ones indicated above and I'm betting it's a totally new saw.

 

[woodhog73]

It's only 45cc (ish):

Ok I have to laugh. Not at the saw it looks fine. But at 45cc the specs say it can accept up to a 24 inch bar. That's funny. Can you imagine cutting hard wood that big with this tiny saw ? Better not be in a hurry you will be at it for awhile.

 

[nola mike]

Also, it would help if the OP said more about how his 450 is behaving. 'Needs more power' might imply all sorts of issues that need to be addressed differently.

Seems like a chain issue. Not bogging as much as just not cutting quickly, v. the smaller JD. May be my sharpening, but I sharpened both chains (and took down rakers). I think I'm going to try a 16" bar (I'll still have the 20 if needed). The number of bars/chains is bewildering though. I take it that when people say "full chisel" they mean a round grind square tooth chisel, which I think is what is currently on both saws. Also don't know whether I want narrow kerf or not.

 

[HitzerHillbilly]

I run Stihl RS chains on my 311 with a 20" bar and the thing just eats! I love it, so I would also suggest a similar chain.

 

[Jon1270]

I take it that when people say "full chisel" they mean a round grind square tooth chisel, which I think is what is currently on both saws.

The chain in the picture you posted at the top of the thread is semi-chisel, because the bend from the vertical part of the tooth to the horizontal top plate is rounded. On a full chisel chain that corner would be sharp; a section view from the front or back would look like the numeral 7.

Full chisel chains bite into the wood more easily because the shape of the tooth begets a sharp leading point. The trade-off, though, is that that very sharp point is fragile, so full chisel chains dull easily in conditions that are less than ideal. So, chisel chains are really nice in clean wood but problematic when cutting trees that have gotten dirty from falling in/getting dragged through mud or lying in the woods for a while. When that needle point is dulled just a bit, the performance drops through the floor. Most homeowner saws like the Husky 450 come standard with semi-chisel, because it's more forgiving for inexperienced users.

 

[TreePointer]

There are three things that you MUST match to your bar when considering a new chain: PITCH, GAUGE, and number of drive links (DL).

In general, everything else is a matter of preference or desirability for intended use. Full chisel and semi-chisel describe the shape of the cutter. Kerf is a measure of how wide a cut the chain makes.

These days, Husqvarna's 50cc saws come standard with a H30 Pixel chain. That is .325 pitch, semi-chisel, NK chain. Going from that chain to a .325 pitch, full chisel, standard kerf chain makes a noticeable difference.

If you are not sure what you have, remove the Husqvarna's bar, and post a picture of the markings stamped on it.

 

[nola mike]

So don't know whether I want full or semi. Maybe I'll try full and see if it dulls too quickly.

 

[TreePointer]

So don't know whether I want full or semi. Maybe I'll try full and see if it dulls too quickly.

Over the years, I've tried various brands of each of those cutter shapes. I use full chisel on all my saws almost exclusively.

Stihl chain has more chrome plating, which makes it harder than standard Oregon/Husqvarna chain. This helps it to keep its edge longer. The drawback is that it's a little more expensive and takes harder files to sharpen it. It's a trade-off that works for me.

 

[computeruser]

So don't know whether I want full or semi. Maybe I'll try full and see if it dulls too quickly.

I think you will find that the whole bit about round filed "full" chisel dulling to easily is overplayed. Assuming your saw I said running .325" pitch chain, get a loop of Oregon 20-series chain. The cutters are really easy to hand-sharpen well and it cuts nicely. I think that the Stihl stuff takes a slightly wider bite, which consumes more power, and the cutters are harder and therefore take more effort to hand-sharpen. Having run both, the 20-series Oregon wins out for me.

Also think about the bar length. 20" is way too much for that saw. I would not go more than 16" on that saw. If it was mine, it would run 13", which is what my 50cc Husqvarnas run whether they are stock or ported; ported gets to run an 8t rim. Your cutting technique might need to change with the 13" setup, but it is like using a scalpel instead of a steak knife, and I bet you will grow to like running a saw set up that way.

 

[CentralVAWoodHeat]

Over the years, I've tried various brands of each of those cutter shapes. I use full chisel on all my saws almost exclusively.

Stihl chain has more chrome plating, which makes it harder than standard Oregon/Husqvarna chain. This helps it to keep its edge longer. The drawback is that it's a little more expensive and takes harder files to sharpen it. It's a trade-off that works for me.

Agree.

OP: Your stock Husqvarna Chain is the worst feature of that saw. They are made specifically for low kickback. While they are a much safer chain, the trade off is the depth gauge shape. On those particular chains, the depth gauge runs the entire width of the cutting tooth. This makes each pass with the chain much less productive. They are also much more difficult to maintain because filing one down, compared to a standard full chisel chain not designed for low kickback, takes forever and typically can only be done to maximum effectiveness with a dremel tool.

I use Carlton Chains, and have also heard great things about Stihl chains. I've been told Carlton is just a glorified Oregon Chain but it's simply not true. Even if they come from the same factory (I've been told) Carlton Chains have minimal stretch, sharpen great, and hold an edge very well.

Before switching from a low-kickback chain, make sure you are very skilled in your saw techniques and knowledge. There is a much higher risk of your saw jerking or kicking back in exchange for faster cutting.

 

[nola mike]

Ok, still researching this, here and at arborist site (my wife, not for the first time, is wondering what's wrong with me). Here's what I think I want:
1. 16" bar, lots of options, not sure whether it matters. Should I get a NK bar, just because it can run either chain?
2. Oregon LPX (this is the same as the "20-series" chain?) or Stihl RS. Are either of these available in NK?
3. NK v. regular? Seems like NK should cut better--are they all low kickback though?
4. Full v reg chisel. I think I'll start with full and see how it holds up. I don't typically cut more than 1/2 cord (at most) at a time.

Someone feel free to give me a link to some specific products that would work with my saw. I want to make sure I get the right stuff. Here's what's on the husky now: