Old stoves vs New(ish). School me

[HillStreetChickens]

Previously posted about having moved to a new home (built in 80s) and installing a stainless liner for an antique parlor stove which augments the pellet stove.

Now that the cold snap has finally arrived we're finding ourselves with good output from the stove but minimal burn times and not much draft control. I get that it's the age of the stove and if I want the charm I'm going to have to deal.

Question I'd like appreciate an answer to is, let's say I go from the parlor stove (1912 - no gaskets - front damper only) and move to a 1990-2010 Jotul F400 of 8 or even something new from Jotul of roughly the same combustion chamber. Is the burn time and output difference monumental enough to merit the change?

FYI currently if I get the stove up to temp and throw in 1-2 16" logs of seasoned hardwood I get temps for maybe 1-2 hours max. Probably less. Great draft though.

Thanks.

 

[bholler]

Previously posted about having moved to a new home (built in 80s) and installing a stainless liner for an antique parlor stove which augments the pellet stove.

Now that the cold snap has finally arrived we're finding ourselves with good output from the stove but minimal burn times and not much draft control. I get that it's the age of the stove and if I want the charm I'm going to have to deal.

Question I'd like appreciate an answer to is, let's say I go from the parlor stove (1912 - no gaskets - front damper only) and move to a 1990-2010 Jotul F400 of 8 or even something new from Jotul of roughly the same combustion chamber. Is the burn time and output difference monumental enough to merit the change?

FYI currently if I get the stove up to temp and throw in 1-2 16" logs of seasoned hardwood I get temps for maybe 1-2 hours max. Probably less. Great draft though.

Thanks.

Yes you will get far longer burn times and much more heat from each piece of wood with a modern stove.

In addition to the age most stoves of that time period were designed to burn coal not wood. And they do a very poor job with wood

 

[EbS-P]

F400 is a good stove for supplemental heat. It’s not big and when cold expect 4-6 hours between reloads

 

[bholler]

F400 is a good stove for supplemental heat. It’s not big and when cold expect 4-6 hours between reloads

Yes but still far better than a 100 year old parlor stove

 

[begreen]

FYI currently if I get the stove up to temp and throw in 1-2 16" logs of seasoned hardwood I get temps for maybe 1-2 hours max. Probably less.

That's not a lot of wood. I wouldn't expect a big difference in burn time unless we are talking 6-8" thick splits.

 

[bholler]

That's not a lot of wood. I wouldn't expect a big difference in burn time unless we are talking 6-8" thick splits.

No not with that ammout of wood. But if this is an old coal parlor stove that may be all they can fit.

 

[HillStreetChickens]

It’s definitely a wood stove and there’s room for another log or two but yes, the splits we have are pretty beefy. It’s our first year doing wood heating so we’re getting the hang of this. It is definitely a wood stove based on my research. Pic of similar stove I found online.

 

[bholler]

It’s definitely a wood stove and there’s room for another log or two but yes, the splits we have are pretty beefy. It’s our first year doing wood heating so we’re getting the hang of this. It is definitely a wood stove based on my research. Pic of similar stove I found online.

View attachment 303472

I can't tell from that pic it could be either one. What does it look like inside?

 

[begreen]

I loaded our stove with two thick splits and two 3" splits at 8am. The stove still has hot coals and is heating at almost 6pm.

 

[bholler]

Insert in your previous thread a part that says home herold wood. So it atleast had a wood conversion if nothing else

 

[HillStreetChickens]

Firebox is big enough for 4/5 big splits loaded to the brim. There’s no ash pan below the cast bottom plate. I was pretty convinced it was a wood stove until you guys started talking about coals now I don’t know. I always thought coal stoves had a tumbler mechanic at to stir up coals and this one is basically just the fire chamber with a front damper and a door.

 

[bholler]

Firebox is big enough for 4/5 big splits loaded to the brim. There’s no ash pan below the cast bottom plate. I was pretty convinced it was a wood stove until you guys started talking about coals now I don’t know. I always thought coal stoves had a tumbler mechanic at to stir up coals and this one is basically just the fire chamber with a front damper and a door.

They do a coal stove needs a shaker grate with air coming from underneath. If yours doesn't have that it's not a coal stove at all

 

[HillStreetChickens]

Yeah. No grate and no path for an air stream below the fuel. The bottom plate is a thick sheet of CI with a corrugated ridges cast into plate.

 

[bholler]

Yeah. No grate and no path for an air stream below the fuel. The bottom plate is a thick sheet of CI with a corrugated ridges cast into plate.

Ok that's settled

 

[begreen]

Firebox is big enough for 4/5 big splits loaded to the brim. There’s no ash pan below the cast bottom plate. I was pretty convinced it was a wood stove until you guys started talking about coals now I don’t know. I always thought coal stoves had a tumbler mechanic at to stir up coals and this one is basically just the fire chamber with a front damper and a door.

So for comparison, that would be a 12 hr burn in our stove in the fall and 8 hrs in winter. And there is a nice view of the fire.

 

[Corey]

...
Now that the cold snap has finally arrived we're finding ourselves with good output from the stove but minimal burn times and not much draft control. I get that it's the age of the stove and if I want the charm I'm going to have to deal.
....

I don't know that this is necessarily the case. But a lot will depend on your set up and how much you can / or are willing to do to the stove.

I think these really old stoves were meant to be burned with a lot of exposed pipe and un-insulated pipe. So you get a lot of heat back into the room that way. You mentioned stainless - and if some or all of that is insulated, then it would easily make way too much draft. The easiest thing would be to install some sort of damper. Back in the old days I burned a "stove shaped fireplace thing" - sort of similar to your stove... at least in the way it had no real air control and leaky bi-fold doors on the front. That thing would hog wood and I think I'd get more heat rubbing two match sticks together. ...until I started experimenting with closing the damper partly. That turned it into a whole house heater and kept me warm for a couple winters on scraps from the local furniture makers. So if you do have a damper, consider using it to help regulate draft. If not, it might be worth looking into one.

The next step would be looking to see what you can do to tighten up the stove. Can it be re-sealed, re gasketed or any holes which need replacement bolts or sealing? Any unused slats which can be closed permanently with furnace cement? Things of that nature.

Next on the list - since you have good draft - any way to install a baffle? This might involve some creative metalworking, but if you can get any sort of baffle to help deflect heat before it goes right up the flue, that will help, too.

The 'top of the line' would be converting it for secondary burn. That would really crank out the BTUs, but also require quite a bit of metalwork and skill for an effective retrofit.

 

[HillStreetChickens]

Started looking at what’s available on marketplace by me and most budget friendly option is a cat type series 8 Jotul. Inside looks like there’s some surface rust but the price is competitive.

Thoughts?

 

[HillStreetChickens]

I don't know that this is necessarily the case. But a lot will depend on your set up and how much you can / or are willing to do to the stove.

I think these really old stoves were meant to be burned with a lot of exposed pipe and un-insulated pipe. So you get a lot of heat back into the room that way. You mentioned stainless - and if some or all of that is insulated, then it would easily make way too much draft. The easiest thing would be to install some sort of damper. Back in the old days I burned a "stove shaped fireplace thing" - sort of similar to your stove... at least in the way it had no real air control and leaky bi-fold doors on the front. That thing would hog wood and I think I'd get more heat rubbing two match sticks together. ...until I started experimenting with closing the damper partly. That turned it into a whole house heater and kept me warm for a couple winters on scraps from the local furniture makers. So if you do have a damper, consider using it to help regulate draft. If not, it might be worth looking into one.

The next step would be looking to see what you can do to tighten up the stove. Can it be re-sealed, re gasketed or any holes which need replacement bolts or sealing? Any unused slats which can be closed permanently with furnace cement? Things of that nature.

Next on the list - since you have good draft - any way to install a baffle? This might involve some creative metalworking, but if you can get any sort of baffle to help deflect heat before it goes right up the flue, that will help, too.

The 'top of the line' would be converting it for secondary burn. That would really crank out the BTUs, but also require quite a bit of metalwork and skill for an effective retrofit.

Might be an option for later on and that’s likely what I’ll do since I do not intend to get rid of the parlor stove. For now between two very young kids and a slew of projects at a new home with 15 years of precious neglect I’m going to start looking for a used stove of a newer vintage.

 

[bholler]

Started looking at what’s available on marketplace by me and most budget friendly option is a cat type series 8 Jotul. Inside looks like there’s some surface rust but the price is competitive.

Thoughts?

I would probably keep looking. Those aren't bad stoves. But not great either.

 

[bholler]

Might be an option for later on and that’s likely what I’ll do since I do not intend to get rid of the parlor stove. For now between two very young kids and a slew of projects at a new home with 15 years of precious neglect I’m going to start looking for a used stove of a newer vintage.

Keep the stove as a conversation piece. The fact is that stove will never seal up well enough to work well as a secondary combustion stove.

 

[EbS-P]

I spent all summer shopping for used stoves. My conclusion was there are deals they last less than 24 hours but many times the stove was too big or small. At the end of the day a new Drolet of the correct size was 1000$ more than a used jotul F400. that extra cost included the liner an insulation. I didn’t want a project. Time is worth something. A Drolet 1800 is 1400$ shipped.

 

[HillStreetChickens]

After scouring the market for a few weeks the leading candidate is a 2007 Jotul F400 in great conditions. At least per the pictures. Owner is asking for $1000, which doesn't seem out of line considering the other prices I'm seeing.

Do you guys have any input? It's burgundy which obviously makes it much more valuable...

 

[EbS-P]

Look really well at the base ppl are for cracks in the corners and ash grate corners. Make sure the baffle is straight. 375$ to replace. Check door alignment. You can replace the gaskets if you need to.

1000$……. For an enamel stove this year. I’d take it. It’s not big. 4-6 hour burn time. I love mine.

 

[begreen]

After scouring the market for a few weeks the leading candidate is a 2007 Jotul F400 in great conditions. At least per the pictures. Owner is asking for $1000, which doesn't seem out of line considering the other prices I'm seeing.

Do you guys have any input? It's burgundy which obviously makes it much more valuable...

$1000 seems high for a 2007 stove. Is it enameled? I bought my F400 in blue-black enamel for $1439 back in 2006. Admitted that this was a good price. I got it on a hot summer day as a floor model in a very quiet stove shop. If not enameled, offer $700. If enameled, $800 cash.

 

[HillStreetChickens]

It is enameled and doesn’t look chipped. Problem I’m running into now is the height of the masonry fireplace I’m trying to locate it in. Overall head height is 26” and change. Height of the standard length leg stove looks like 28 3/4”. Short legs will knock that down by 2” which is very tight.
Stupid question but do the short legs bring the ash pan tight to the floor or is there 1-3” of clearance between the bottom of the ash pan and floor when using the short legs?