Ontario, Canada to ban wood stoves?

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Offset

Member
Mar 10, 2014
105
Haliburton, Ontario, Canada
I had a discussion with a couple of people last weekend who heat solely with wood. It is their understanding that wood stoves/heating devices are going to be banned in the Province. I have not been able to find a link to this information and was wondering if anyone in Ontario had heard this news? I do know that the government put out a policy paper on MMGW and their response last week so it could have some validity.
 
I've only heard rumours but not seen anything to back it up. Sure wouldn't surprise me at this point. It must just drive Kathleen nuts to think that people are heating their homes with fuel they aren't paying taxes on.

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Squirrel

Burning Hunk
Sep 23, 2014
157
Ontario
The Climate Change Action Plan says-

4.2 Help retire older wood stoves
A new program targeting northern and rural communities, including Indigenous communities, would encourage households to switch out older polluting wood stoves for new high-efficiency wood stoves.

This may mean they'll offer you a $5.00 coupon off a $1,000 stove, but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for it.
 
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begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
85,898
South Puget Sound, WA

Simonkenton

Minister of Fire
Feb 27, 2014
1,837
Marshall NC
Say it ain't so, Johnny Canuck!
 
I caught this:
Starting in 2018, wood-burning appliances will be banned unless they meet the rigorous new emission standards of 2.5 grams of fine particles or less per hour.
http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/montreal-residents-will-have-to-register-their-fireplaces-and-wood-burning-stoves-or-face-a-500-fine
Ah yes. I did read about this. This is only in the city of Montreal, Quebec. Although I can see these measures being implemented in other large cities.
 

Offset

Member
Mar 10, 2014
105
Haliburton, Ontario, Canada
Begreen, thank you for the link. Montreal, just a little to the east has a mayor who shares a very similar ideology with the current government of the Province of Ontario. Interesting.
 

Lake Girl

Moderator
Nov 12, 2011
6,940
NW Ontario
I would find a ban interesting and very hypocritical. The Atikokan GS for Hydro One is pellet fuelled. I can understand a push for more rigorous legislation on emissions so cat stoves and pellet stoves.

They are purporting a ban on NG furnaces in new houses in 2020 IIRC (not sure the status of oil). Leaves wood and electric for heating ... I could understand if Ontario still owned Hydro One but they sold off a large portion.

Edit: http://business.financialpost.com/news/energy/five-things-you-need-to-know-about-how-ontarios-climate-change-action-plan-will-affect-your-life?__lsa=b2ed-672f

No ban on NG for heating but big incentives for alternative heating options...
 
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begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
85,898
South Puget Sound, WA
Start practicing your igloo building skills.
 

iceman2424

Member
Jun 13, 2016
70
Michigan
Fascinating. Man, do yourselves a favor and don't Google "Montreal wood stove ban." You'll just end up finding a billion (give or take) articles that talk about the growing "movement" to outlaw wood burning in several municipalities across the U.S. and Canada.

Yowza. I'm depressed now.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
85,898
South Puget Sound, WA
I'm not worried as long as the focus is on the worst case scenarios and abusers. Clean burning is good for all of us, especially in urban areas and places where winter temperature inversions are common.
 
I would find a ban interesting and very hypocritical. The Atikokan GS for Hydro One is pellet fuelled. I can understand a push for more rigorous legislation on emissions so cat stoves and pellet stoves.

They are purporting a ban on NG furnaces in new houses in 2020 IIRC (not sure the status of oil). Leaves wood and electric for heating ... I could understand if Ontario still owned Hydro One but they sold off a large portion.

Edit: http://business.financialpost.com/news/energy/five-things-you-need-to-know-about-how-ontarios-climate-change-action-plan-will-affect-your-life?__lsa=b2ed-672f

No ban on NG for heating but big incentives for alternative heating options...
Do you know if propane has been mentioned?
 

Lake Girl

Moderator
Nov 12, 2011
6,940
NW Ontario
No specific mention about propane but expect it to cost more like gas estimate of $.04 more a litre (carbon tax). These following points leave me scratching my head and debating on how they are planning these "net zero carbon emissions" homes. If I use my carbon neutral pellet stove for primary heat, my insurance will charge me an additional premium of 1/3 the initial fees which negates any potential savings over fossil fuels. I know for fuel the ethanol content causes all sorts of problems as it breaks down ... I imagine the same for proposed "renewable content" NG/Propane changes.

Direct from the provincial website (https://www.ontario.ca/page/climate-change-action-plan#section-5)
5) Set lower-carbon standards for new buildings
5.1 Update the Building Code
The government intends to update the Building Code with long-term energy efficiency targets for new net zero carbon emission small buildings that will come into effect by 2030 at the latest, and consult on initial changes that will be effective by 2020. Ontario will consult on how to best achieve these targets through Building Code improvements.

6) Promote low-carbon energy supply and products
6.1 Establish low-carbon content for natural gas
Ontario intends to introduce a renewable content requirement for natural gas and provide supports to encourage the use of cleaner, renewable natural gas in industrial, transportation and buildings sectors. The government will consult with industry on the implementation of this requirement. The goal is to ensure the lowest possible carbon content to help reduce building and transportation emissions. Methane released from sources like landfills, municipal green bin collection, agricultural residues, livestock manure, food and beverage manufacturing waste, sewage treatment plants and forestry waste can be renewed and directly substituted for conventional natural gas. Renewable natural gas is a low-carbon fuel that does not add new carbon to the atmosphere. It is fully interchangeable with conventional natural gas and uses the same infrastructure.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
85,898
South Puget Sound, WA
Wouldn't it be more favorable for the environment to shut down the tar sands project?
 

velvetfoot

Minister of Fire
Dec 5, 2005
10,010
Sand Lake, NY
Major economic hits based on bogus demonization of carbon dioxide; sickening. Canada has a budget surplus to pay for this feel good crap?
 
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johneh

Minister of Fire
Dec 19, 2009
3,231
Eastern Ontario
Well they could do what Hydro One in Ontario did .
Tell there customers that they do very well in conserving electricity
in fact you didn't use enough so we are raising prices because we didn't make enough
 
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Offset

Member
Mar 10, 2014
105
Haliburton, Ontario, Canada
Hard to argue with wanting a cleaner world. However our current government has so badly screwed up our hydro system. Alternatives to fossil fuel are probably impossible for most to financially move from them. Hydro in Ontario is the most expensive in Canada, the governments "green" plan is just a complete mess, they will not say that however. Best thing to ever happen to us by them.

These politicians typically live in large urban areas. They seem to forget that people living in rural areas to do not have the options for energy that those who live in urban area do. My only hope is that this government, who seems to be under new police investigations daily, is removed from office in 2018.

Perhaps someone can develop a going forward plan that will not place extreme hardship on people while protecting the earth. It is possible, the hysteria just needs to be removed.

My two year supply of wood is stacked and ready to go. Hope I don't end up in jail._g
 

Lake Girl

Moderator
Nov 12, 2011
6,940
NW Ontario
My two year supply of wood is stacked and ready to go. Hope I don't end up in jail.
Not until 2020 or 2030 ... however their plan works:) Your PE and my Elena would not meet the proposed particulate emissions criteria of 2.4.


Wouldn't it be more favorable for the environment to shut down the tar sands project?
Wrong province .... can't dictate what goes on in Alberta from Ontario. Can the state of Washington regulate what goes on in North Dakota re: Bakken? Same argument , just fill in the blanks...

While trying to find an article on emissions from tar sands - retrieval and consumption, I found this.
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/01/22/oil-sands-environmental-impact_n_2527560.html
 

tarzan

Minister of Fire
Jan 16, 2014
1,552
wv
I'm not worried as long as the focus is on the worst case scenarios and abusers. Clean burning is good for all of us, especially in urban areas and places where winter temperature inversions are common.
What would you consider the worst case scenario? More than 2.5 grams an hour? Abusers?

I agree that clean burning is good for all of us but labeling a wood burner as an abuser is a little harsh!
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
23,037
central pa
No 2.5g/hr is no where near a worst case scenario or an abuser at all.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
85,898
South Puget Sound, WA
What would you consider the worst case scenario? More than 2.5 grams an hour? Abusers?

I agree that clean burning is good for all of us but labeling a wood burner as an abuser is a little harsh!
Worse than that. In our area typically it is someone with an old smoke dragon burning poorly seasoned wood by getting it going then shutting down the air and letting it smolder for hours. But it could be someone with a fireplace burning the same poorly seasoned wood.
 

Lake Girl

Moderator
Nov 12, 2011
6,940
NW Ontario
Find it interesting that, up till now, there has been no attention paid to wood stove emissions in regulations in Ontario. What happens to those that have more modern stoves but they don't meet the 2.4g spec (based on EPA decision for what year)? I know there is a phase in period in the US but apparently not cutting the same slack here.

Are they planning on carbon taxing pellets too?

Oh heck no. Deficits every year. Liberals
Last year's budget was purportedly balanced but prior to that, the last balance & pay down debt was in 2005/06... not supposed to get into politics so I'll leave it at that. Just wanted to point out that there is no money in the piggy bank and the loan has been getting bigger.
 
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