Options for burning wood in existing fireplace in 1898 home

[biondanonima]

We have a foursquare home built in 1898 with an original brick fireplace in the corner of the living room. Chimney extends into the basement and runs through the master bath on the second floor, a closet in the attic then out through the roof. It is currently not lined, but aside from needing a bit of repointing in the attic, it seems to be in fine condition. Brick hearth is intact in the basement (we'll be replacing the ugly floor tile and hopefully restoring the original wall tile surround). The fireplace itself is on the small side, with the opening inside the original iron face frame measuring just 22"wx25"h. Not sure whether the existing fire box is original or not, but it is in rough shape and would presumably need to be replaced. Here's a photo:



DH and I have considered converting it to gas, but we both really love the atmosphere of a wood burning fireplace, and we preserved the chimney during our recent bath remodel in order to retain the wood-burning option. I have been looking at the various options for wood burning inserts and stoves, though, and I am completely confused and overwhelmed. Do I correctly understand that modern fireplace inserts are more fuel- and energy-efficient than an old-school open fire, but that a stove insert would be even more efficient? Do stoves small enough to fit inside this fireplace even exist (most I have seen are minimum 23" wide)? We don't need this to produce a ton of heat - we'd mostly be using it for atmosphere and/or warmth during power outages - if it reduces our oil costs a bit that would be a bonus. However, we do want it to look as period-appropriate as possible and be relatively easy to use and clean. Would appreciate your suggestions!

 

[bholler]

We have a foursquare home built in 1898 with an original brick fireplace in the corner of the living room. Chimney extends into the basement and runs through the master bath on the second floor, a closet in the attic then out through the roof. It is currently not lined, but aside from needing a bit of repointing in the attic, it seems to be in fine condition. Brick hearth is intact in the basement (we'll be replacing the ugly floor tile and hopefully restoring the original wall tile surround). The fireplace itself is on the small side, with the opening inside the original iron face frame measuring just 22"wx25"h. Not sure whether the existing fire box is original or not, but it is in rough shape and would presumably need to be replaced. Here's a photo:

View attachment 285340

DH and I have considered converting it to gas, but we both really love the atmosphere of a wood burning fireplace, and we preserved the chimney during our recent bath remodel in order to retain the wood-burning option. I have been looking at the various options for wood burning inserts and stoves, though, and I am completely confused and overwhelmed. Do I correctly understand that modern fireplace inserts are more fuel- and energy-efficient than an old-school open fire, but that a stove insert would be even more efficient? Do stoves small enough to fit inside this fireplace even exist (most I have seen are minimum 23" wide)? We don't need this to produce a ton of heat - we'd mostly be using it for atmosphere and/or warmth during power outages - if it reduces our oil costs a bit that would be a bonus. However, we do want it to look as period-appropriate as possible and be relatively easy to use and clean. Would appreciate your suggestions!

You would need to pull out that old coal fireplace to see what the actual firebox size is behind that

 

[biondanonima]

old coal fireplace

Is that what the iron and cracked cement (I think?) thing is? I had no idea...no wonder I'm confused! 🤪 I'll have to enlist DH's help - will return with correct depth measurements once we figure out how to remove. I think the white thing floating above it is a piece of styrofoam the previous owners shoved up there. Little wonder we keep the entire thing covered at all times!

 

[Woodsplitter67]

An open fireplace while pretty doesn't really heat. Majority of the heat goes right up and out of the house while drawing in a lot of cold air to replace what is going out the chimney. An insert with a block off plate and an insulated liner will give you a nice fire view while heating the house. the block off plate will keep the heat inside while the blower will blow the heat into the room heating the house. A stove is free standing and doesn't need a blower. The insert/stove efficiency is based per manufacturer most are around the same.. mid 70s to mid 80s are a general range. cat stoves/inserts burn longer and give off an even heat. Stoves/inserts non cats dont burn quit as long. If you considering burning with any modern stove get your wood supply and storage together now before you purchase your stove as most sell wet wood and say its seasoned. Unseasoned wood makes for a poor burning experience and most are on here figuring out why the stove isn't running correctly. You will need wood with a moisture content of less then 20%

 

[bholler]

Is that what the iron and cracked cement (I think?) thing is? I had no idea...no wonder I'm confused! 🤪 I'll have to enlist DH's help - will return with correct depth measurements once we figure out how to remove. I think the white thing floating above it is a piece of styrofoam the previous owners shoved up there. Little wonder we keep the entire thing covered at all times!

Yes that is an old insert of sorts but there are lots of parts missing.

 

[john26]

There are a number of manufactures that make cast iron and cast iron clad inserts that would look close to period correct.

 

[bholler]

There are a number of manufactures that make cast iron and cast iron clad inserts that would look close to period correct.

Yes but finding one that fits is the problem

 

[armanidog]

Plus I imagine the chimney will need to be renovated with an insulated liner. .

 

[bholler]

Plus I imagine the chimney will need to be renovated with an insulated liner. .

Absolutely. And if it was built for a coal burner to start it may not be large enough

 

[armanidog]

I was looking at NYC regulations and you are allowed to use a wood stove/insert/fireplace if it is pre-existing before 2015. I imagine the building inspector will be involved in any renovations to an old fireplace.
Firewood in NYC is expensive-a "city" cord is $124 and it is actually a quarter of a face cord. At least it is kilned for bugs and they say the moisture content is 8-12% and they offer white glove delivery.

 

[biondanonima]

Thanks everyone for your responses. We are actually just north of NYC in southern Westchester (in a private home), so hopefully no building inspector required. When we had our other chimney fixed and lined a couple of years ago, we had them inspect this one as well, so we know we'll need an insulated liner and a bit of repointing in addition to whatever insert or stove we decide on. I will start researching inserts with block off plates that might fit the space in addition to stoves (thanks john for the tip about cast iron versions). If anyone has recommendations for smaller models, I would be very grateful!

 

[armanidog]

Hampton Hi1150 | Cast Iron Small Wood Insert | Regency

The Hampton Hi1150 is a traditional styled cast iron small wood insert that is designed to fit right into your existing fireplace, efficiently heating your home.

www.regency-fire.com

Minimum Fireplace Opening*
Width (front)	25 in.
Height	19 5/8 in.
Depth	15 in.
Dimension Notes: *with standard flue

 

[biondanonima]

Hampton Hi1150 | Cast Iron Small Wood Insert | Regency

The Hampton Hi1150 is a traditional styled cast iron small wood insert that is designed to fit right into your existing fireplace, efficiently heating your home.

www.regency-fire.com

Minimum Fireplace Opening*
Width (front)	25 in.
Height	19 5/8 in.
Depth	15 in.
Dimension Notes: *with standard flue

Thanks armanidog. I saw this one, but it looks as though the width is just a few inches too large for my 22" opening. Unless that iron face frame is part of the coal-burning insert that is going to have to be removed anyway and there is a larger opening hiding behind?

 

[bholler]

Thanks armanidog. I saw this one, but it looks as though the width is just a few inches too large for my 22" opening. Unless that iron face frame is part of the coal-burning insert that is going to have to be removed anyway and there is a larger opening hiding behind?

The cast iron frame it part of the insert

 

[biondanonima]

The cast iron frame it part of the insert

Well, that's a bummer, isn't it? I love the look of it and I would really like to preserve as much of the house's history as possible. I wonder if a fabricator could use it to create a custom surround for an insert?

 

[PaulOinMA]

Look onto your city regulations. I pulled a building permit myself just to replace an old insert with a new one in 2018 here in MA. Building inspector came over to sign off before I had my first fire.

He had me remove the insert surround, looked at the liner, and checked clearances against the worksheet I provided with the permit application. I just have a small insert and easily was over all clearances.

My fireplace guy argued with me that a permit wasn't needed. It most definitely is.

 

[bholler]

Well, that's a bummer, isn't it? I love the look of it and I would really like to preserve as much of the house's history as possible. I wonder if a fabricator could use it to create a custom surround for an insert?

I have done a few gas units where I used the old coal surrounds modified. The proportions of wood inserts generally aren't right at all.

 

[PaulOinMA]

Oh, welcome. My mom, 1923 - 2016, was born and raised in the Bronx by Yankee Stadium.

I get Yonkers as on of two places I talk like on the NY Times dialect quiz. Other is Newark/Patterson. Dad, 1919 - 2010, was born in Garfield.

 

[bholler]

Look onto your city regulations. I pulled a building permit myself just to replace an old insert with a new one in 2018 here in MA. Building inspector came over to sign off before I had my first fire.

He had me remove the insert surround, looked at the liner, and checked clearances against the worksheet I provided with the permit application. I just have a small insert and easily was over all clearances.

My fireplace guy argued with me that a permit wasn't needed. It most definitely is.

That depends upon local requirements. A permit absolutely is not required in many places.

 

[PaulOinMA]

BTW, there was just a recent thread of someone looking for an insert for a small fireplace. My Lopi Answer was an option to look at. There were a few others, too.

 

[PaulOinMA]

That depends upon local requirements. A permit absolutely is not required in many places.

I would be surprised if one isn't needed in Westchester.

 

[bholler]

I would be surprised if one isn't needed in Westchester.

I agree with that

 

[biondanonima]

I have done a few gas units where I used the old coal surrounds modified. The proportions of wood inserts generally aren't right at all.

I've been looking around online and that definitely seems to be the case. I've found several UK-based sites that have suitable options, but they don't seem to have US distributors. Anyone know where I can pick up one of these? https://www.stovax.com/stove-fire/tiled-convector-fireplaces/victorian-tiled-convectors/

What type of repairs would I be looking at if we tried to use the coal surround converted to gas? Or is ours too far gone?

 

[biondanonima]

I get Yonkers as on of two places I talk like on the NY Times dialect quiz.

There is a VERY distinct accent and dialect here! 😉

 

[bholler]

I've been looking around online and that definitely seems to be the case. I've found several UK-based sites that have suitable options, but they don't seem to have US distributors. Anyone know where I can pick up one of these? https://www.stovax.com/stove-fire/tiled-convector-fireplaces/victorian-tiled-convectors/

What type of repairs would I be looking at if we tried to use the coal surround converted to gas? Or is ours too far gone?

You would buy a valor gas insert and find a fabricator who can modify the surround and fabricate missing parts