Oregon State University researchers are getting their PhD's in wood burning (just joking)

[Whitenuckler]

New technologies help wood-burning stoves burn more efficiently, produce less smoke

Oregon State University researchers are gaining a more detailed understanding of emissions from wood-burning stoves and developing technologies that allow stoves to operate much more cleanly and safely, potentially limiting particulate matter pollution by 95%.

techxplore.com

 

[qwee]

Thanks for that 'real' assessment on woodburning stoves. I've never seen it laid out so clearly. Top points I took from this,

".......showing that 70% of the pollution emitted from wood stove flues happens at two points in time: when a stove is first lit, and when it's reloaded.........." I wonder how to better reduce these startup and reload problems?

"...........wood stoves, they are the U.S.'s third-largest source of particulate matter pollution, after wildfire smoke and agricultural dust,..."
I was surprised here.

"........there are an estimated 6.5 million inefficient stoves in the U.S., most of them models that predate EPA clean-burning standards. In all, there are roughly 10 million wood-burning stoves in the country,...." That means more than half are polluters. There is one obvious solution.

".....developing automated technologies that inject jets of primary and secondary air into the fire to provide just the right amount of air and mixing at the right time and place in the fire. Prototypes are showing about a 95% reduction in particulate matter emissions compared to older models....." Darn, I wish I had put in the masonry heater I built air channels between brick layers in the firebox - so extra air to the firebox. But I did not.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Call me skeptical about it being the 3rd largest source of pollution.

 

[Whitenuckler]

Call me skeptical about it being the 3rd largest source of pollution.

I'm not sure if I believe everything I read

 

[begreen]

Call me skeptical about it being the 3rd largest source of pollution.

Yes, I'd like to see the source. Sounds like they may be including fireplaces and open outdoor fires like firepits and garbage burners. Still, this would have to be seasonal.

 

[begreen]

The article doesn't specify, but I suspect that it is based on old data or data based on pre-EPA stoves. Overall, the trend is good. Agriculture remains a top contributor. The rest varies hugely depending on the region and time of year, with industrials and road dust coming higher in urban areas, especially in the south.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I suppose it’s possible their total number of stoves could be accurate. It seems low to me. But if they collected data from insurance companies it could be fairly accurate.

I’d bet the majority of stoves in people’s houses aren’t used often. I’d bet this is especially true of pre EPA stoves. EPA regulations started in what 92 or 93? 30 years of hard seasonal use is going to wear things out. The majority of survivors were well maintained (most never were) or not used much.

If their particulate figures are based on these stoves running hard every night they’d be off by a lot. I bet a lot of the EPA stoves just sit. They were purchased for emergency use, only used for ambiance, ran a few times with wet wood and frustrated the user… we see the posts here. How many people just quit rather than take the effort to sort the stove out, even if it takes a year to dry the wood enough to do it.

 

[qwee]

I think you aren't being realistic. There are many who use old stoves (especially in rural settings) and burn unseasoned or partially seasoned wood in these old stoves. They have developed this pattern and are now set in their ways. It works, it heats why change?
We see it on this site day after day - "I want a fireplace.......My old wood stove is better than any EPA stoves....Wood is wood it all burns....I can heat my shop, my house, my garage with my homemade wood boiler......Will this Oak be ready by next year?... .etc..."

 

[brenndatomu]

Call me skeptical about it being the 3rd largest source of pollution.

Right?!
If they are really so worried about it, how about taking a BIG swing at reduction, do some forestry management and stop these wildfires that block the sun for half the summer on our continent!

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I think you aren't being realistic. There are many who use old stoves (especially in rural settings) and burn unseasoned or partially seasoned wood in these old stoves. They have developed this pattern and are now set in their ways. It works, it heats why change?
We see it on this site day after day - "I want a fireplace.......My old wood stove is better than any EPA stoves....Wood is wood it all burns....I can heat my shop, my house, my garage with my homemade wood boiler......Will this Oak be ready by next year?... .etc..."

Are you debating the number of old stoves out there, the percentage of old stoves vs new stoves, or how often the old stoves out there are used?

 

[qwee]

How often they are being used. Although if as you say many old stoves aren't being used, if this study is correct there are twice as many of them compared to new stoves so even if many aren't being used there are probably more old stoves being used compared to new stoves. So realistically when a person says wood stoves are major polluters there is a basis for saying this - because those old stoves are polluters.
The good wood stoves are brought down by all of the old stoves. So I could say, "Overall wood stoves (boilers, inserts, fireplaces) are a major source of air pollution." Would I be wrong?

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I think we can agree that they do polite, but would probably disagree as to whether or not it’s major.

I’m not sure that that there are more old stoves in constant use as there are new ones. Again, it’s been 30 years since they were sold on a widespread basis. I realize there were a few “exempt “ stoves sold but percentage wise it was very few. I’d bet, just like we see here, somebody buys a house that has an old stove in the basement that hasn’t been used in years. They might use it a year or two, realize the work involved, and either leave it unused or replace it hoping to use 30% less wood.

Old stoves are like old cars. Yes, they don’t run as clean, but in the Northeast at least, there really aren’t a lot of them around to pollute anymore. Those that do are not daily drivers. Running them on the weekends for part of the year isn’t going to make much of a difference.

How to deal with it is probably different also.

Since so much money would be spent for incremental gains going from 1.5g/h to 1g/h, or less, I’d focus on ways to make houses need less heat. I’d put that money into insulation. That’d help keep heat in during the winter and out in the summer. Fewer splits would be burnt regardless of the stove’s age and our air would be cleaner.

Making other forms of energy for heating that make less pollution more easily available and affordable is also a good option. Natural gas is cheap and much less work than wood. My electricity bills s really expensive, but other places have it cheap.

 

[begreen]

Without citations of data source(s) we can only speculate on the validity or errors in the assumptions in the article. On the surface, they look cherry-picked, possibly out of date, and potentially regional and/or seasonal. They dilute message. The underlying point is already well known - old stoves and open fireplaces put out a lot of particulate matter.