Outdoor, indoor, upgrade or relocate my wood stove...

[roofyroo]

I'm completely new to wood stove's but I'm a quick learner and good at research. Hopefully I can get some useful opinions here...

I'm in Virginia and recently bought a 2 story 2000 sq. ft. house with a basement (additional 1000 sq. ft.) built in 1933. The previous owners left a Hearthstone Heritage 8021 wood burning stove which is located in a corner room of the house which was clearly an additional at some point. This room has a chimney flue as well the 2 flues in each side of the open basement.
The old owners just upgraded their heating system but it is all electric and clearly the unit is not capable of keeping up in the cold - hence the electric bill is sky high - so I'm investigating options.

1. I can add the optional blower (#90-57210 and $300) to the Heritage which also requires the rear heat shield (#90-68210 and $160). If this is our primary heat source then I'm wondering if I should get the chimney lined?

2. Replace the Heritage with something with more BTUs (the Heritage is 55,000) and more sq. ft. coverage, and sell the Heritage.

3. Buy a new stove, or move the Heritage to one of the basement flues which will require it be lined, and probably expensive as it'll be 3 levels?

4. Buy a new stove with a blower, or move the Heritage to the basement and buy a blower, so it will heat the basement and then rise through our grating (old house has open vent to the first floor).

5. Buy a wood burning furnace, install in the basement, hook it into the HVAC. This option will mean lining one of the chimney's for exhaust.

6. Buy an outdoor wood/coal burning furnace to come into the house's HVAC.

I would love to go 6 but it's going to be too expensive as I'd like to stay well below $2000 if possible. Currently the Heritage does heat our home as long as it's really burning and all the doors are open. With no blower it takes a long time.
Option 1 will cost $460 plus a little extra for labor and flue parts as whoever installed our stove put it 4" away from the brick wall rather than the 16" or 10" (when using the rear heat shield).
This will be a medium to long term thing so maybe it's best to follow option 2?

Looking forward to hearing useful input...

 

[bholler]

I would love to go 6 but it's going to be too expensive as I'd like to stay well below $2000 if possible.

You might be able to do option 2 and stay under $2000 if you install the liner in your chimney yourself. Is the basement insulated? If not putting a stove down there is not the best option until you insulate it. Personally i would say fix up the heritage and line that chimney first. Then work on insulating the basement if it is not already the nwhen you have the money put a bigger stove down there and line one of those chimneys. Another option may be to tap into one of the other chimneys on the first floor and put a stove there again with a liner put in the chimney

 

[begreen]

The low budget option would be to sell the Heritage and get an Englander 30NC or Drolet HT2000. That will increase capacity and will deliver more btus, quicker. If you can sell the Heritage for $1000 this will be a no cost upgrade. Then work on helping the heat migrate through the house better. If you can post a sketch of the 1st floor plan we can make some suggestion on that.

 

[Grisu]

To heat the upper 2000 sqft you will need a large stove with a 3+ cu ft firebox. BeGreen already mentioned the 2 budget options there. If the plan is to also heat the basement with wood, then I would keep the Heritage and line the basement flue when money allows it. Otherwise, you can sell it to offset the cost for the other stove.

How many cords of dry wood do you already have sitting in your yard? Dry means an internal moisture content of less than 20% usually achieved by stacking the split wood in a sunny and windy spot for one to three years (depending on wood species and drying conditions).

 

[Oldman47]

If you have the front money look at a geothermal system. They are darned expensive up front but will give you electric bills about 1/3 of the bill for conventional resistance heating. I have a 2500 sq ft home that I am building and so far this year it is costing me about $100 per month to heat it and the 2500 sq ft basement with a "water furnace". Compared to several hundred each month for resistance electric or propane the system cost is quite reasonable and should pay for itself in a very few years. Unfortunately the up front cost on this system was very high.

 

[begreen]

That's why I went for a high-efficiency air-to-air heat pump. Its total cost was less than half that of a geothermal system and the cost of running is very reasonable. We use wood instead of resistance heating for our backup system.

 

[roofyroo]

Thanks for all your replies so far - very useful.

I looked into Geothermal and it's too expensive for us. Also upgrading to a bigger and better heat pump is out of the question.

We have about 1/4 cord of wood remaining right now but have unlimited (within reason) access to a wood supply. Most are trees that have been fallen for years and need cutting, stacking and seasoning. We have this (below) for wood storage.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd....6_10152397965360865_7884831113602803505_o.jpg

This should give some insight into the visual chimney placement of our house.
https://scontent-b-iad.xx.fbcdn.net...7_10152397962515865_7643332793083087082_o.jpg
And a quick floor plan sketch.
http://s7.postimg.org/tj4e05si3/layout.png

For the time being I would prefer Option 1 or 2. The Heritage does seem to give out a lot of heat, but when it's on slow burn it doesn't heat the whole house. Why are the Hearthstone's so much? Obviously it looks really nice and it appears to be made very well. When it comes down to it I'd rather have a warmer house and lower bills though.

The 2 stoves (Englander 30NC or Drolet HT2000) BeGreen mentioned seem to have overall good reviews. Are there any more in this league, or maybe a slight step up, anyone recommends?

If the Heritage is a good stove and with a blower would perform really well I'd be reluctant to sell it. Perhaps keep it for the basement once finished or as a backup.

 

[Grisu]

Nice wood shed but when you want to heat primarily with wood this winter there should be more than 1/4 cord in there. Wood (even from dead trees) that has not been cut, split and stacked for at least one year in the open is nowhere near 20% or less moisture content. Not sure if your idea of burning in a larger stove before the end of the winter will become reality.

Drolet makes some other large stoves like the Myriad/Austral/Baltic (essentially the same stove). A step up would be the Osburn 2400, Pacific Energy Summit, Lopi Liberty, Quadrafire 5700. With those you get into the $2000+ category.

The location of the Heritage looks not that great if you want to heat the whole house. How well does the heat travel from the stove room right now? Would it be possible to connect the stove to any of the other two flues?

 

[mopar440_6]

Assuming the current electric heating system is of the forced air type, in your situation I would be looking at the Drolet Tundra or a similar EPA wood furnace in the basement connected to the existing duct work and keep the Hearthstone just for heating the addition. Based on the sketch you're probably going to have trouble heating the entire house with a single stove no matter where you locate it.

Hearthstones are expensive because of the soapstone overlay. The soapstone heats up with the stove and radiates it for long after the fire has died out. The soapstone stoves tend to reduce the temperature fluctuations seen during the regular burn cycle on steel and cast stoves. Enerzone also makes a large 3.4 stove that seems really well built. I considered it but it wasn't in the budget so I went with the NC-30.

If you plan to move forward with wood heat I would suggest that you start cutting, splitting, and stacking that shed full right now for next year.

 

[roofyroo]

My first choice would be to go with a basement wood furnace connected to the forced air. From my morning's research I understand lining a chimney is not difficult, and several experts over the phone suggested the Z Flex liner. I went up on my roof and checked things out and my chimney flue is approximately 27' so the 30' kit would do.
http://www.supplyhouse.com/Z-FLEX-2ZFLKIT0630-6-x-30-FT-All-Fuel-Stainless-Steel-Liner-Kit
MyRubberNeck says the kit comes with a Long Snout Flex Ready Tee
SupplyHouse says the kit comes with a Stacking Tee
I believe these are both the same but worded differently?

I see that pretty much everyone recommends insulation if using for wood, and I found this, also from Z Flex - 25' x 6".
http://www.supplyhouse.com/Z-FLEX-2INSKIT0625-6-x-25-Ft-Insulating-Blanket-w-Wrap-Gear-Clamps
Would I really need to purchase an additional 2' of this so my entire chimney is lined? 3' of my chimney is out of the top of the roof.

MyRubberNeck - $1015
SupplyHouse - $868

I wanted to stay below $2000, but if this is a longer term investment then I don't mind going over a little. In terms of the wood burning furnace like the Drolet Tundra, what are some similar that perform well?

Englander 3000
US Stove Hot Blast 1400 or 1500
Vogelzang Norsemen 2500

 

[begreen]

Of those options I like the Tundra the best. It's an EPA furnace with better and cleaner output. You probably will want to keep the Heritage if wood furnace heating, for milder weather. Furnaces work best when the are not forced to idle a lot. If you decide to go the furnace route start a new thread in the Boiler Room forum here so that you can get a more targeted response from owners of wood furnaces. To achieve best satisfaction the furnace location needs to be close to the other furnace and the trunk duct. And there will need to be one or two back draft dampers installed. add maybe $1000 for the additional sheetmetal fabrication and installation.

 

[Wood Duck]

First, you are way behind on wood for next year. Do you have a lot of oak on your property? That is great firewood but very slow to season. No matter what type of wood you want to burn next winter it should be split and stacked already.

I think all stoves will work better with a full liner from stove to top of chimney. I'd plan on adding a liner no matter what you decide about a stove.

There are lots of big, inexpensive, non-cat stoves that will do a decent job of heating your house. Englander 30NC is one popular model, Lopi makes nice stoves, many other options.

If I were picking a stove as a primary heat source for a house with a backup system, I'd consider long burn time as the most important feature of my new stove. I haven't used a cat stove, but big cat stoves give long, clean burns better than other stoves. On the other hand, with a backup heat system you could go for a non-cat stove, burn it clean which means hot, and let the backup electric heat fill in the gaps when your stove burns out overnight.

 

[roofyroo]

I've posted in the Boiler Room be green - thanks!

Wood Duck - yes I know we're behind on next years wood

To quote some $$$ for anyone else reading this, our electric bill for mid October (when the weather was mild so minimal running of the heat or air-conditioning) was $160. The average for mid November and December and January so far is $490, so we're talking around $1500 additional for winter.

 

[begreen]

If $160 is the baseline, you need to subtract the $160 from the $490, right? Or did you already do that? If not the heating bill is more like $330. However, also remember that in winter the hot water heater has to work harder and we have more lights on and for a longer time.

 

[maple1]

Why does the water heater work harder in winter?

 

[maple1]

I'm completely new to wood stove's but I'm a quick learner and good at research. Hopefully I can get some useful opinions here...

I'm in Virginia and recently bought a 2 story 2000 sq. ft. house with a basement (additional 1000 sq. ft.) built in 1933. The previous owners left a Hearthstone Heritage 8021 wood burning stove which is located in a corner room of the house which was clearly an additional at some point. This room has a chimney flue as well the 2 flues in each side of the open basement.
The old owners just upgraded their heating system but it is all electric and clearly the unit is not capable of keeping up in the cold - hence the electric bill is sky high - so I'm investigating options.

1. I can add the optional blower (#90-57210 and $300) to the Heritage which also requires the rear heat shield (#90-68210 and $160). If this is our primary heat source then I'm wondering if I should get the chimney lined?

2. Replace the Heritage with something with more BTUs (the Heritage is 55,000) and more sq. ft. coverage, and sell the Heritage.

3. Buy a new stove, or move the Heritage to one of the basement flues which will require it be lined, and probably expensive as it'll be 3 levels?

4. Buy a new stove with a blower, or move the Heritage to the basement and buy a blower, so it will heat the basement and then rise through our grating (old house has open vent to the first floor).

5. Buy a wood burning furnace, install in the basement, hook it into the HVAC. This option will mean lining one of the chimney's for exhaust.

6. Buy an outdoor wood/coal burning furnace to come into the house's HVAC.

I would love to go 6 but it's going to be too expensive as I'd like to stay well below $2000 if possible. Currently the Heritage does heat our home as long as it's really burning and all the doors are open. With no blower it takes a long time.
Option 1 will cost $460 plus a little extra for labor and flue parts as whoever installed our stove put it 4" away from the brick wall rather than the 16" or 10" (when using the rear heat shield).
This will be a medium to long term thing so maybe it's best to follow option 2?

Looking forward to hearing useful input...

5.

 

[begreen]

Why does the water heater work harder in winter?

Because the incoming water that it has to heat up is usually much colder. And if the hw heater is in a cold basement it will come on more frequently due to faster heat loss. There's also greater heat loss in the pipes if they are uninsulated.