outdoor shower

[RustyShackleford]

I'd like to build a small outdoor shower. Here's where I'm at so far, and I'd appreciate folks' thoughts, criticisms, suggestions on my design ...

I'm thinking it would hang off the side of an existing deck, where we have a small hot tub, So four treated 4x4s, two lagged to the side of the deck (notched so the lag isn't carrying the load) and two supported by concrete bases (maybe the pre-cast ones). A floor of Trex (or similar) maybe 8-12" below the deck, so you step down into it, and the deck doesn't get all soapy. The sides with 4ft-high (3ft wide) pieces of roofing tin, so that would cover from about 1ft above the floor to high enough to cover ladies' naughty bits. One side swinging as a door. No roof.

It doesn't freeze much here, but some. I'd prefer not to have to de-commission the shower for the winter. I was thinking to plumb two frost-proof hose bibs into the foundation wall near the shower, one hot and one cold. Then short garden hoses leading from there to the mixing valve and shower head. I'd connect the hoses to the hose bibs with those Y-shaped fittings (that allow you to connect two hoses to one bib), and the other side of the Y would have nothing connected to it. When hard freeze is forthcoming, just open the shower valve, and turn on the flow to the non-connected side of the Y. All the water would drain out from the shower, and it'd also prevent the hose bibs from being backed up so they fail. Also, I could connect a hose to the unused side of the Y to fill the hot tub. I'd plumb the shower valve and shower head themselves with pex, so even if some water remained, it'd be unlikely to cause a failure.

 

[gthomas785]

So when you say off the deck, it will be away from the house correct? My only comment is make sure to think carefully about where the water will go. A lot of people building outdoor showers build it right against the house assuming it will get minimal use and then it turns out people really enjoy showering outside! So what was a dry part of their foundation turns into a permanent damp spot and rots the siding/sill. Your deck is probably framed with PT but even that can rot if it's constantly wet so just be thoughtful about ways to keep the water spray and splashing from getting under your deck boards and into the framing.

 

[EbS-P]

I’ve been thinking how to do it as well. I’d do single temp adjustable mixing valve inside with a shutoff after the valve inside . Then you only need to run a single line out. Hose bib or with a valve at the lowest point on a T out side. All pex.

 

[Murray01]

You could run pex from the basement right to the mixing valve. In the basement you would have your hot and cold running to shutoff valves, from the shutoff valves and before your water lines exit to the outside a T is installed with shutoff valves on the “bottom” of the Tees(to drain the line) If you can’t run your lines at a slight incline you always have the option to blow your line clear of water with a compressor.
This keeps all the plumbing inside(except the mixing valve). If you need to blow the water out of the lines it would be done from the inside at the bottom of the drain line

 

[RustyShackleford]

So when you say off the deck, it will be away from the house correct? My only comment is make sure to think carefully about where the water will go.

Good thought, but I think I'm cool. Yes, it will be separated from the main house probably 4ft, and the ground slopes away from the house. And like I said, I will make the floor of the shower a step down from the deck itself. Also, the way I built the deck it is sort of cantilevered off its foundation elements (so it appears to sort of float off the ground), so the water shouldn't come near that.

 

[RustyShackleford]

I’d do single temp adjustable mixing valve inside with a shutoff after the valve inside . Then you only need to run a single line out. Hose bib or with a valve at the lowest point on a T out side. All pex.

I don't understand. Then you wouldn't be able to adjust the temperature without going into the crawlspace.

But yeah, the place where I drain the outside lines needn't necessarily be the way I described in OP (with a 'Y' fitting) if I make it so the lowest part is somewhere else between the hose bibs and the shower. But then I'd had to buy a valve (or two) to attach to the tee at the lowest point, a lot more expensive.

 

[RustyShackleford]

You could run pex from the basement right to the mixing valve. In the basement you would have your hot and cold running to shutoff valves ...

But then I'd have to go into the crawlspace every time I need to drain the lines for a hard freeze, right ? I don't see any compensating advantage over my plan with frost-free hose bibs.

 

[RustyShackleford]

I should've mentioned, it's a crawlspace, not a basement, so kind of a grunt to go into it.

Also, it's encapsulated, so virtually impossible it would freeze inside the crawlspace.

Here's a picture. The shower would be attached to the deck about where the wooden chair is sitting. For sure there's a risk of water draining to the left, towards the crawlspace door; I just need to make sure it drains to the right, towards the small staircase and then down towards the camera - shouldn't be too hard.

BTW, I'd be hugely appreciative if someone cleverer than me checked this photo to make sure it doesn't include GPS location data, probably not a great idea in general

 

[Murray01]

But then I'd have to go into the crawlspace every time I need to drain the lines for a hard freeze, right ? I don't see any compensating advantage over my plan with frost-free hose bibs.

I thought you had a basement. As long as you ensure the frost free bib is angled slightly downward for drainage you should be good to go. About the roof, if you anticipate using the outdoor shower in cooler weather the moment you shut the water off the shower stall will get cold fast. Worse than stepping out of a hot shower into a bathroom at room temperature.

 

[RustyShackleford]

About the roof, if you anticipate using the outdoor shower in cooler weather the moment you shut the water off the shower stall will get cold fast. Worse than stepping out of a hot shower into a bathroom at room temperature.

Good thought. I notice you're in Canada though, I'm in central North Carolina OTOH, I think I'll make the sides out of those translucent ceiling panels (instead of metal), so should be pretty light in there even with a roof. Maybe I'll just design it so I can add a roof easily if I decide I want it.

 

[Ashful]

BTW, I'd be hugely appreciative if someone cleverer than me checked this photo to make sure it doesn't include GPS location data, probably not a great idea in general

I believe you're safe. I downloaded the file directly from the site and checked the EXIF data both in Win11 Explorer and using a third-party tool, and both came up blank.

<-- also planning an outdoor shower

 

[RustyShackleford]

I'd like to minimize the effort in making the system ready for a cold snap. As it stands, I'd have to shut off both hose bibs, and then flip the lever on the two Y-connectors (where the hoses to the shower attach to the hose bibs) so the hoses will drain. Hopefully the pipes in the shower itself will drain enough without also having to turn the shower valves on.

Be nice if there was a frost-free hose bib that let the attached hose drain when you shut it off. It'd also deal with the issue of a homeowner forgetting to remove a hose and causing the hose bib to burst. But I can't locate any such hose bib.

 

[gthomas785]

I'd like to minimize the effort in making the system ready for a cold snap. As it stands, I'd have to shut off both hose bibs, and then flip the lever on the two Y-connectors (where the hoses to the shower attach to the hose bibs) so the hoses will drain. Hopefully the pipes in the shower itself will drain enough without also having to turn the shower valves on.

Be nice if there was a frost-free hose bib that let the attached hose drain when you shut it off. It'd also deal with the issue of a homeowner forgetting to remove a hose and causing the hose bib to burst. But I can't locate any such hose bib.

If you could somehow install the hose bibs at a higher level than the shower head, it would drain by itself.

 

[all night moe]

Easier to build ..... instead of stepping down into the shower, you could use one of the plastic tubs made for building indoor showers. They normally get tiled. The benefit is they have provisions for a drain pipe. With short walls out of the "tub" and your side panels, or even a shower curtain/s, you'd be labor ahead. The drain can direct the run off water wherever you desire.

 

[Ashful]

I'd like to minimize the effort in making the system ready for a cold snap. As it stands, I'd have to shut off both hose bibs, and then flip the lever on the two Y-connectors (where the hoses to the shower attach to the hose bibs) so the hoses will drain. Hopefully the pipes in the shower itself will drain enough without also having to turn the shower valves on.

Be nice if there was a frost-free hose bib that let the attached hose drain when you shut it off. It'd also deal with the issue of a homeowner forgetting to remove a hose and causing the hose bib to burst. But I can't locate any such hose bib.

I can't remember if you have a basement with a boiler room, like a traditional house would up here, I know some of that stuff goes away as one heads south. But having plumbed several houses, here's the methodology I prefer:

1. Try to keep all shutoff valves in the boiler room or utility room, not scattered all over the house where new owners are less likely to find them. Don't mind a long run downstream of the valve, to the outside bib, just put the shutoff where the pipe exits the boiler room to that run.

2. Use good quality (eg. Apollo or Watts) ball valves, not the crap "American Valve" you find at Lowes Depot. You'll forget the extra $20 soon enough, and won't be cursing yourself when having to replace or rebuild cheap valves in a few years.

3. Install a tee adapter downstream of the ball shutoff valve, into which you'll thread a boiler drain. This is the best way to drain down the runs, as you can connect a hose to it and direct it into a bucket, or install a pressure gauge and Schrader for pressure testing, etc. Very handy.



4. After closing the ball valve for winter, open both the boiler drain in the basement and the outside hose bib to drain the line. I leave them opened until spring, although I suppose you could close the outside one if you're worried about air infiltration.

 

[RustyShackleford]

I can't remember if you have a basement with a boiler room, like a traditional house would up here, I know some of that stuff goes away as one heads south.

Yes, very different down here. It's a crawlspace, a bit of a crouch to enter - so having to go in there to shut it off is a non-starter - gotta be able to do it from the outside.

Also, esp. with climate change, it just doesn't freeze enough down here that "closing the ball valve for winter" is even a thing. It's more like close it a half-dozen times every winter, when there's a freeze - otherwise, it'd be nice to have the shower working, for cleaning off before entering the hot tub and for rinsing the chlorine off afterwards.

That's why I'm trying to make it simple. I thought these might do the trick (though expensive), but it's not clear if the hose will drain when you disconnect it: Amazon product ASIN B0BDSR17HD. The answers to a question about that are completely contradictory: https://www.amazon.com/ask/question...pful&ref_=pe_623860_70668520_ans_notf_saa_aas

 

[gthomas785]

You might be interested in something called an auto-drain valve. It opens when the pressure behind it drops below some level (eg 10 psi). You'd place it at the low point of the shower piping beyond the hose bibs so that when you're showering it's closed, and when you turn off the shower it would open up and drain all the water out.

 

[RustyShackleford]

You might be interested in something called an auto-drain valve. It opens when the pressure behind it drops below some level (eg 10 psi). You'd place it at the low point of the shower piping beyond the hose bibs so that when you're showering it's closed, and when you turn off the shower it would open up and drain all the water out.

I can't find a link that seems like the right thing.

But the only thing I'd have to do is turn the two hosebibs off, the rest would tae care of itself, huh ?

 

[gthomas785]

Something like this would probably work. It's made for a sprinkler system.

- Google Shopping

www.google.com

And yeah, if you arrange it so everything pitches toward that and can't get airlocked, all you'd have to do is relieve the pressure and it would drain.

 

[Murray01]

How about 2 frost free hose bibs, one hot the other cold, both would have to be long enough to comfortably reach into the crawl space. On the outside run your pex down creating a U shape with a Tee on both hot and cold and a shutoff/drain on the bottom of the Tee. The Tee has to be the lowest point. The U would then continue up to the mixing valves and on to the shower head. When freezing is forecast you would have to shut off the 2 outside frost free valves and open both Tee drains and open the shower head valve. The only time you would enter the crawl space would be to set up the initial plumbing.

A couple of other ideas that haven’t been mentioned that might or might not be worth consideration is leave the water running(a slow trickle) during cold snaps and/or heat tape.

Might be worth talking to a plumber since whatever idea you settle on will need to be up to code plus he/she might have some ideas that haven’t been mentioned.

 

[PaulOinMA]

We have an outdoor shower on OBX.

The water heater closet is on the ground floor. Hot and cold lines run to the shower with shutoffs. The outside water faucet is in the shower and used to drain the outside lines in the fall.

The two lines are easy to identify as heading away from the rest of the house, and even opposite from the ground floor bathroom.

My wife goes to OBX with her mom. Absolutely ZERO reason to turn on the lines to the outdoor shower when they are there. Of course she did, and the faucet was open. Large water bill that month. I now have "OUTDOOR SHOWER - Do not turn on unless needed" on the shower lines.

She was there with her mom the week before last. "Thanks for the sign!" Yeesh!

 

[RustyShackleford]

How about 2 frost free hose bibs, one hot the other cold, both would have to be long enough to comfortably reach into the crawl space. On the outside run your pex down creating a U shape with a Tee on both hot and cold and a shutoff/drain on the bottom of the Tee.

Yeah that's my current working plan. Or if it's more convenient to have the hosebibs themselves be the low point, then install one of these where each line attaches to the hose bib:



The valve the hoses are connected to would never be turned off, the second would be normally closed. When turning off the hose bibs, open the second valve: that would allow the hoses and shower system, as well as the hosebib itself, to drain. So it's four operations, but all done in the same place. I doubt it'd be necessary to open the shower valves - seems like in a matter of an hour or two, enough water would drain out to prevent freeze damage even without air being able to get in.

 

[RustyShackleford]

The water heater closet is on the ground floor. Hot and cold lines run to the shower with shutoffs. The outside water faucet is in the shower and used to drain the outside lines in the fall.

Yeah, no chance I can make the shower be the low point.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Something like this would probably work. It's made for a sprinkler system.

- Google Shopping

www.google.com

And yeah, if you arrange it so everything pitches toward that and can't get airlocked, all you'd have to do is relieve the pressure and it would drain.

Hmm, that could work. Of course, that means every time you use the shower, even if you hadn't prepped for a freeze beforehand, a bunch of air will spurt out the shower before any water comes - pretty disconcerting. Of course, that will be the case for any of the options I'm considering that only require me to turn off the hosebibs (as I asked for in post #12 above). Maybe I should scratch that idea. Just go with one of the options in posts #20 and #22.

 

[gthomas785]

Hmm, that could work. Of course, that means every time you use the shower, even if you hadn't prepped for a freeze beforehand, a bunch of air will spurt out the shower before any water comes - pretty disconcerting. Of course, that will be the case for any of the options I'm considering that only require me to turn off the hosebibs (as I asked for in post #12 above). Maybe I should scratch that idea. Just go with one of the options in post #22.

So are you installing hose bibs and a shower valve? or just the hose bibs.
Because if you have both, and you leave the hose bibs turned on / pressurized except when you want to drain it, then no air will come spurting out when you go to shower unless it was previously drained. Regardless, if it's been drained, there will be air in the pipes, which doesn't have to be a big deal.