Outside air kit

[Kwhelan]

The next step is to open a nearby window about an inch to see if that remedies the situation.

Does the smoke smell start right away, or after a few hours? What is the outdoor temperature when burning?

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Takes about an hour or so for the smell to start. After happening with the temperature ranges from 0 to -20, basically everytime the wood is going I get the smell.

 

[begreen]

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Takes about an hour or so for the smell to start. After happening with the temperature ranges from 0 to -20, basically everytime the wood is going I get the smell.

Ok, that is helpful information. I'm sorry to keep asking so many questions, but this is necessary in order to narrow down the problem.

What is the result when the window was opened 1" or is it getting too warm now to test? If that works then the issue may be the need for outside air.
Does the smell start soon after the blower kicks in, but not before?
Has the furnace been very closely inspected to be sure there are no bad welds or cracks in the heat exchanger?

 

[Kwhelan]

Ok, that is helpful information. I'm sorry to keep asking so many questions, but this is necessary in order to narrow down the problem.

What is the result when the window was opened 1" or is it getting too warm now to test? If that works then the issue may be the need for outside air.
Does the smell start soon after the blower kicks in, but not before?
Has the furnace been very closely inspected to be sure there are no bad welds or cracks in the heat exchanger?

Yes the smell dosent start until the blower kicks in, in inspection was just done with a light and i aslo remove the furnace coverings while the fire was smoking to see if there was anysmoke being released from the fire box. Sometimes the the smell of smoke is stronger then other times.

The result is the same with the draft fromt he window.

 

[begreen]

One possibility is that the system is unbalanced and pulling too strongly from the basement as opposed to the upstairs, thus creating negative pressure there. This might be evident by a larger return in the basement vs the upstairs. A temporary test would be to partially block the basement return grille by say 75% to see if that improved the situation. If it does make a marked improvement then the system needs to be examined by an HVAC specialist for imbalance. It may need a larger or another return upstairs. While the technician is there I would also have the installation and furnace inspected for a possible crack or weld break in the heat exchanger.

 

[begreen]

I am going to move this posting to the Boiler room for further wood furnace discussion. Maybe someone else has some insight.

 

[Kwhelan]

One possibility is that the system is unbalanced and pulling too strongly from the basement as opposed to the upstairs, thus creating negative pressure there. This might be evident by a larger return in the basement vs the upstairs. A temporary test would be to partially block the basement return grille by say 75% to see if that improved the situation. If it does make a marked improvement then the system needs to be examined by an HVAC specialist for imbalance. It may need a larger or another return upstairs. While the technician is there I would also have the installation and furnace inspected for a possible crack or weld break in the heat exchanger.

on another note in my last house the furnace room was always warm with the fire going, i noticed that now my furnace never really gets the room warm, not sure if this is a sign off anything.

 

[salecker]

I think that the wood fire is needing makeup air.
The window open while burning will definitely tell you if that is the case.
My store building at work,when its cold will have the smell of furnace exhaust now that it is closed.
When it was open there was lots of traffic in and out of the store so the door was constantly open and closed.The heating system was installed without makeup air.I leave a window cracked open now.
I know makeup air is on the list of chores for the summer.

 

[polychrome]

If we assume that the smell of smoke in the house means that smoke exiting the top of the chimney is entering the home then the house, as an envelope, is below outdoor pressure and smoke is being driven in by the higher outdoor pressure. The most obvious reason for that is that the combustion air is being extracted from the building, but warm air passively exits from the upper stories, and air is blown out by kitchen fans, bathroom fan, clothes dryers, and of course the biggest of all exhaust fans, the attic fan. For cubic foot that goes out a cubic foot must come in somewhere.
Supplying outside air to the appliance has the advantage of raising the building pressure and delivering the air where it’s exiting. The fire won’t mind a little smoke smell. That said, the house does need some air intake rate, and that means solving the smoke problem to be completely rid of the smell.
Not using a barometric damper maximizes the chimney’s draft, but it also makes it difficult or impossible to regulate the amount of air passing through the firebox, and the oil fire will become sooty as outdoor temperatures rise unless it’s set for up for so much excess air that it’s viciously inefficient in cold weather. Using a barometric damper will dilute the stack smoke with the end result being less air up the flue to achieve a stable combustion. The secondary question of “why is smoke sinking” may be easier to resolve if combustion is more consistent. There will always be cold still air that smoke sinks in, but if that’s an every day thing the site isn’t suitable for burning solid fuel.
It’s normal for people to try to burn wood more slowly than it will burn efficiently and end up with a smoky fire. That smoke is vaporized solid fuel going up the flue, it should be burned up and the flue gas should be hot enough to rise.
It’s also normal to buy enough flue to meet code and then discover that the way wind wraps the air around the structure entrains the flue gas, and e gthe concealer smoke pipe has to be taller to get the smoke up out of the recirculating boundary layer. The air on the downwind side of a house is a whirlpool on its side, that recirculation can take air from the stack and bend it around and deliver it rising up from the ground along the wall. A taller stack can put the smoke up above the layer of the air flowing over the roof that recirculates on the downwind side.
All this assumes the stack isn’t leaking smoke directly into the home. If it’s all outdoors and exposed that’s easy to visually confirm. If it’s concealed in whole or in part that’s not a sure thing. It can be tested.
There’s also a tendency to burn wood that isn’t dry enough and make creosote and it does smell like smoke, and it drools out from pipe joints. If the smoke smell doesn’t need a current fire, it’s something to look for.

 

[maple1]

If we assume that the smell of smoke in the house means that smoke exiting the top of the chimney is entering the home then the house, as an envelope, is below outdoor pressure and smoke is being driven in by the higher outdoor pressure. The most obvious reason for that is that the combustion air is being extracted from the building, but warm air passively exits from the upper stories, and air is blown out by kitchen fans, bathroom fan, clothes dryers, and of course the biggest of all exhaust fans, the attic fan. For cubic foot that goes out a cubic foot must come in somewhere.
Supplying outside air to the appliance has the advantage of raising the building pressure and delivering the air where it’s exiting. The fire won’t mind a little smoke smell. That said, the house does need some air intake rate, and that means solving the smoke problem to be completely rid of the smell.
Not using a barometric damper maximizes the chimney’s draft, but it also makes it difficult or impossible to regulate the amount of air passing through the firebox, and the oil fire will become sooty as outdoor temperatures rise unless it’s set for up for so much excess air that it’s viciously inefficient in cold weather. Using a barometric damper will dilute the stack smoke with the end result being less air up the flue to achieve a stable combustion. The secondary question of “why is smoke sinking” may be easier to resolve if combustion is more consistent. There will always be cold still air that smoke sinks in, but if that’s an every day thing the site isn’t suitable for burning solid fuel.
It’s normal for people to try to burn wood more slowly than it will burn efficiently and end up with a smoky fire. That smoke is vaporized solid fuel going up the flue, it should be burned up and the flue gas should be hot enough to rise.
It’s also normal to buy enough flue to meet code and then discover that the way wind wraps the air around the structure entrains the flue gas, and e gthe concealer smoke pipe has to be taller to get the smoke up out of the recirculating boundary layer. The air on the downwind side of a house is a whirlpool on its side, that recirculation can take air from the stack and bend it around and deliver it rising up from the ground along the wall. A taller stack can put the smoke up above the layer of the air flowing over the roof that recirculates on the downwind side.
All this assumes the stack isn’t leaking smoke directly into the home. If it’s all outdoors and exposed that’s easy to visually confirm. If it’s concealed in whole or in part that’s not a sure thing. It can be tested.
There’s also a tendency to burn wood that isn’t dry enough and make creosote and it does smell like smoke, and it drools out from pipe joints. If the smoke smell doesn’t need a current fire, it’s something to look for.

But - I don't think we know it is smoke from the chimney. Smoke could also be coming from the other end of the fire - the draft damper/opening. The ducting imbalance possibility.

 

[bholler]

If we assume that the smell of smoke in the house means that smoke exiting the top of the chimney is entering the home then the house, as an envelope, is below outdoor pressure and smoke is being driven in by the higher outdoor pressure. The most obvious reason for that is that the combustion air is being extracted from the building, but warm air passively exits from the upper stories, and air is blown out by kitchen fans, bathroom fan, clothes dryers, and of course the biggest of all exhaust fans, the attic fan. For cubic foot that goes out a cubic foot must come in somewhere.
Supplying outside air to the appliance has the advantage of raising the building pressure and delivering the air where it’s exiting. The fire won’t mind a little smoke smell. That said, the house does need some air intake rate, and that means solving the smoke problem to be completely rid of the smell.
Not using a barometric damper maximizes the chimney’s draft, but it also makes it difficult or impossible to regulate the amount of air passing through the firebox, and the oil fire will become sooty as outdoor temperatures rise unless it’s set for up for so much excess air that it’s viciously inefficient in cold weather. Using a barometric damper will dilute the stack smoke with the end result being less air up the flue to achieve a stable combustion. The secondary question of “why is smoke sinking” may be easier to resolve if combustion is more consistent. There will always be cold still air that smoke sinks in, but if that’s an every day thing the site isn’t suitable for burning solid fuel.
It’s normal for people to try to burn wood more slowly than it will burn efficiently and end up with a smoky fire. That smoke is vaporized solid fuel going up the flue, it should be burned up and the flue gas should be hot enough to rise.
It’s also normal to buy enough flue to meet code and then discover that the way wind wraps the air around the structure entrains the flue gas, and e gthe concealer smoke pipe has to be taller to get the smoke up out of the recirculating boundary layer. The air on the downwind side of a house is a whirlpool on its side, that recirculation can take air from the stack and bend it around and deliver it rising up from the ground along the wall. A taller stack can put the smoke up above the layer of the air flowing over the roof that recirculates on the downwind side.
All this assumes the stack isn’t leaking smoke directly into the home. If it’s all outdoors and exposed that’s easy to visually confirm. If it’s concealed in whole or in part that’s not a sure thing. It can be tested.
There’s also a tendency to burn wood that isn’t dry enough and make creosote and it does smell like smoke, and it drools out from pipe joints. If the smoke smell doesn’t need a current fire, it’s something to look for.

To me smoke coming out the chimney and being sucked back in is the least likely scenario.

 

[Rob711]

I know nothing about boilers, when using oil does it stink up the house with the burning oil smell?

 

[maple1]

I know nothing about boilers, when using oil does it stink up the house with the burning oil smell?

No. Unless something goes wrong or it was set up or installed wrong.

 

[Groo]

I'd want fresh air intake with any new system. Make sure you have a CO detector or two as well. I would think that would go off before everything got too stinky. I had mine go off without stinking up the place when I had a draft problem with my wood stove.

I did look at a draft fan as a possible solution, until it showed up in the mail. The thing had a huge hole. when the fan is turning it would waste a pile of warm air. when it would be off, it would be venting smoke right into the living area. When I called the manufacturer on it, and suggested a power outage would be dangerous with this thing "well don't burn the stove if the power is out" like I am going to just haul arm fulls of coal out the door and hope I have snow on the ground to not start the whole house and surounding area on fire, if the power goes out and a fire is already going.