Over 20' of Vertical venting and gas insert does not staying on.

[whalien]

Hello Forum,

We purchased an INNSBROOK direct-vent gas insert and had it installed earlier this week. It's a natural gas insert connected to 28' vertical vent run up an existing brick chimney. The chimney has terracota inserts where our intake and exhaust piping now runs. The unit fires up and within 30 seconds it goes out. Blue flame starts and then quickly dissipate above the ceramic logs and then you hear a click, which I assume is a safety valve or sensor getting thrown. Not enough 02? Bad circulation? Who knows, not me!

Inside the unit, at the top near the exhaust pipe is an adjustable flue baffle vent. I read opening up all the way can help with circulation. We though this would solve the issue of the blue flames going out after 30 seconds. After we did that, we were successful at keeping the flame going but the top of the unit got incredible hot so we turned it off after seeing some smoke. The smoke could be due to it being the first full firing(signs it was burning off all the initial manufacturers oils and sealants stated in the instructions).

The instructions also state if you have a vertical run over 20', which we have you should install the supplied air restrictor plate in the back. I plan on trying this next. So we have an adjustable flue baffle vent, an air restrictor plate, and over 20' of vertical piping, and the blower never turns on. Anyone know how we can get this gas to stay lite, not be blue flame, and not allow all the heat out of the top?

Lots of questions...apologies if I'm overstepping here.

Thanks again,
Whalien

 

[DAKSY]

Lifting, blue flames mean it's starved for air.
The installer may have switched the intake & exhaust liners,
The intake is ALWAYS below the exhaust.
If the intake is above the exhaust at the cap, the unit
will intake combustion gasses instead of fresh air.
It may also be an obstruction, but that seems unlikely.
Light it & open the glass front. If it doesn't go out, the issue
is in the venting.
***CAUTION: Don't burn it for an extended period, tho.
Just long enough to test the theory. CO is a by-product
of combustion & is deadly.***

 

[whalien]

Hey @DAKSY!!

Thanks so much for your speedy reply. Our chimney has 4 flue's. When we installed the unit, we had to run the (2x) 3" flex liners down separate flue's in our chimney. The exhaust comes down through the right side of the chimney and the intake comes in on the left. The two 3" flex pipes would not fit into a single flue. At the top of the chimney, there is a significant amount of space between the two pipes.

Because the liners are over 20', We took the manufacturers suggestion of installing the air restrictor plate that covers the intake partially. Not sure this did much as the flame seems to go out even quicker since installing. If it is a venting issue, any clue what we can do?

Thanks again for your insight!

 

[whalien]

@DAKSY, took your suggestion and released the glass front. Worked like a charm. Now how do we fix this venting? The whole thing was just installed.

 

[whalien]

Want to share a photo of the installation. Left side is the intake flue. Right side is the exhaust. At the top of the insert on the inside is a exhaust flue cover that can open and close. We have it partially open. I opened it up all the way and the fireplace did stay lit, but seemed to get incredibly hot at the exhaust pipe.

 

[DAKSY]

It's ALWAYS hottest at the exhaust side.
Many manufacturers use stainless steel liners on
that side for the first 3-4 ft because of that heat.
Not too confident about that framing lumber underneath the insert.
Pretty sure that's not code. Needs to be brick or concrete or something inflammable.

 

[whalien]

@DAKSY, the framing is at the front of the insert to add stabilization in the front, it's also temporary. I just took the front off and lit a piece of paper to see if the smoke was exiting through the exhaust pipe. It barely went up the exhaust pipe. Wondering if the angle of the piping is effecting this.

 

[DAKSY]

What does the cap look like? Can you post a pic?

 

[whalien]

Here are the chimney caps. The shot with two shows the exhaust on the left and the intake on the right. The silver cap is the exhaust pipe and the black one is the intake. It's 28-30' from top of chimney to the insert.

 

[DAKSY]

Those could ALSO be part of the problem.
They are not approved for use with your insert.
Check your install manual, confirm, & get the installer back out there.
Those are BOTH solid fuel spark arrestor type caps.
You need two Direct Vent caps.

 

[whalien]

@DAKSY, thanks again for all the advice. I'm curious why the direct vent cap would make a difference to the make shift version our installer came up with. The exhaust is still able to go out. Just doesn't have the fancier aluminum cap on it.

 

[DAKSY]

If it's not in the installation manual, it hasn't been TESTED & APPROVED to be used that way.

 

[whalien]

UPDATE: We have a lot more work to do. Need to remove the insert, lower the electrical box in the back, remove the heat resistant expanding foam, and create less of an angle on the exhaust pipe. Then maybe just maybe it'll work.