Pacific Energy Alderlea T5 Insert EBT2 Question

[Sreg4444]

Hello,
I have a PE Alderlea T5 insert that was installed new in December of 2015. Unfortunately I cannot find a picture of the back plate to get a serial number off of or a specific manufacture date without sliding the stove out.

My question ... Does anyone know if this has the original EBT in it or does it have the EBT2? Has anyone seen these fail or need replacing ever? Im wondering if mine is stuck in the closed position.

Typically I have always been able to run the stove on its lowest setting and have jets of flames shoot out of the baffle during stage 2 of the burn. See link to see what I am referring to as stage 2 if not familiar.

Sweep's Library - Pacific Energy's Extended Burn Technology

Here's a look at Pacific Energy's EBT technology, as used on several Summit, Neo and Alderlea wood stoves

hearth.com

The past few nights I have loaded wood that has been stored in my garage for 2+ years. Moisture meter read slightly less than 10 percent so it is not a wood problem. I replaced the baffle gasket with a PE gasket so that is brand new as of 3 weeks ago.

Is it possible that the EBT is stuck in the closed position and not getting air up top when the stove needs it? We did not use the stove last season as we were in the middle of a whole home renovation and not living at that residence. The stove was kept inside during the construction phase but was not kept in conditioned space for close to a year.

From what I am used to the stove is not putting out as much heat as before without the secondaries lighting off. When putting in a fresh load of wood in years past I have always been able to get it to burn front to back, like a cigar would burn, while having the secondaries fire off during the whole stage 2 of the burn. and then slowly dying down once the gas from the wood is consumed. Now I am not getting that. The wood just burns in no really predictable way, and a lot of the time I have to bump the air control to 1/3 open to get any meaningful flame out of it and to get the secondaries to fire off any.

Anyone with any insight? My local guy who I bought the stove from has since retired and sold his business to an HVAC company who has little to no knowledge of these stoves and how they work. I have not tried contacting PE directly yet as I usually come here first to look for answers.

Thanks

 

[moresnow]

Did your whole home renovation include a new stove venting system? Any change at all compared to what it had been hooked up to? Did you do extensive heat loss insulating, sealing, new doors/windows etc as part of the renovation? Few thoughts.

 

[begreen]

Good question. I don't think that year had the EBT. IIRC, it has the linked secondary air control instead. That was changed on the Super/T5 a few years ago to meet the 2020 regs.

There are a few things that may be causing the issue. One would be if the flue was cleaned and the secondary air tube was not covered, allowing soot and ash to fall down into the secondary air tube. This might be plugging the secondary intake port a bit if it happened. Another thing would be if the baffle side blankets are not in or worn out. Is the baffle lock pin in the rear in place? I saw a stove last week where it wasn't and the baffle was askew, allowing leakage past it. Does the baffle have an insulation blanket laying on top of the baffle in your stove? If so, make sure it is laying flat and not bunched up, blocking flow over the baffle.

moresnow brings up some good points if the house sealing was improved. One thing to try in that case is to open a nearby window a little and see if the fire perks up and improves.

 

[Sreg4444]

The whole home reno included open cell spray foam on all exterior walls with 2x6 construction on the main floor as well as the second floor. I also did open cell spray foam in the attic under the roof deck (standing seam metal roof) and closed cell spray foam on the basement walls and rim joist bays. All doubled and tripled etc. 2x6's were caulked before drywall to seal out air as well.

All new windows were put in the house from the older ~1990 vintage windows. All new exterior doors were also put in. All windows and exterior doors were foamed around before drywall.

The house is pretty air tight compared to what it used to be with R13 batted insulation in the 2x4 walls and I think R30 in the attic if I remember correctly.

The reno included a partial new stove ventilation system. See below details:

We had to extend the chimney another 4-5 feet higher so we also had the liner (Ventiknox) that had to be extended as well. New insulation around the 6 inch Ventiknox was also slid on before it was stuffed back down the chimney. I have two 6 inch round make up air ducts on dampers that go directly from the outside into the return of our geothermal heatpump. The HVAC also has a 175 cfm ERV hooked up to it but I switched it off when the stove has been burning to rule out anything from that. No other exhaust fans bathroom/kitchen hood etc. were running during the burns either.

I know with all the above info that it would seem to be a draft issue since the new house is so tight but what I neglected to include in the original post is that the stove was making the same behavior before we did all the work to the house. I just didn't recall since it has been some time since I last fired it up but after a dozen fires this year I am all but certain it is behaving the same as the last season I had it burning. I ran this by the wife and she recalls the same from before.

On a side note I did open a sliding glass door on the same level to rule out a draft issue last night. Outside temps in the mid 40's and there was no change. The original chimney was roughly 25 feet tall and the extended chimney is just under 30 from the top of the stove to the crown.

Does anyone know if I can test the EBT on the stove? Or if it is even accessible without pulling the whole thing out?
Could it be old worn out insulation around the side baffle blanket allowing flue gasses to pass around the sides of the baffle?

Any info would be appreciated as I am open to trying suggestions.

 

[begreen]

Does anyone know if I can test the EBT on the stove? Or if it is even accessible without pulling the whole thing out?
Could it be old worn out insulation around the side baffle blanket allowing flue gasses to pass around the sides of the baffle?

Read above posting.

Usually, with 30' of flue on this insert you would be fighting overfire. Is there an ashtrap in the original fireplace or is the fireplace on an exterior wall? If so, I would convert it to outside air feed via the ashtrap or a new feed in the wall of the fireplace.

 

[Sreg4444]

The flue has not been cleaned so I dont think there was any chance of ash getting in the secondary tube. When it was uninstalled the flue was unscrewed from the top of the stove and the stove slid out before the liner was removed for the extension an reinsulation we had installed on it.

As far as the baffle pin is concerned, I removed and replaced it when I changed the baffle gasket a few weeks ago which I doubled up since the stock gasket leaves a little to be desired. The baffle pin took me longer than I would like to admit to get it to insert correctly but it did indeed get installed like it was from new.

The insulation on top of the baffle I am not sure of its integrity. I can remove the baffle tonight and get a look at it. Should I remove the locking tab on top of the baffle and take the shield off to look at the insulation? I will snap a picture tonight and upload it so you guys can give your opinions. I think I will do the same with the side blanket. I have never touched or changed the side blankets since 2015 so there may be a good chance that is bad. Is there anything I should look at in particular for the top of the baffle and the side blankets?

The fireplace no longer has an ashtrap in it but it is on an outside wall underneath a covered porch. I would like to explore other options and resort to this after I exhaust those other options. In its current state I definitely do not have an over firing problem.

 

[begreen]

The baffle side insulation is not inside of the baffle. It is the insulation that sits on top of the side rails along the left and right sides of the baffle.

 

[Sreg4444]

All,
To update this post ... the problem is solved. Stupid me has never cleaned out the Boost air channel since day 1. The whole channel was so clogged with ash there was no way it could function properly. I ended up taking off the manifold cover in the inside front of the stove and vacuuming out the little boost air supply hole. (pinky size round hole welded into the bottom of the boost air channel)

The insert is back up and working like the day it was new. Feels good to solve such a simple problem. I couldn't be happier. The stove fires like day one and burns front to back with strong secondary's again.

I ended up doing way more work than needed but it was an educational experience and I am happy to understand what I, the user, can do to control the air. The wife and I took the entire insert out and turned it on its back side to see what the bottom air controls looked like and how they functioned. I wanted to make sure there were no mouse nest or other debris clogging the secondary burn or any air intakes. Low and behold there was nothing foreign after almost 2 seasons being in storage during renovations but rather self induced ash from me.

This version of the stove - Oct 2015 - does not have an EBT or EBT2. The only thing the user can control is the amount of air that goes to the air wash system which at the same time controls the amount of air able to pass through the secondaries. Begreen was correct in stating: "I don't think that year had the EBT. IIRC, it has the linked secondary air control instead. That was changed on the Super/T5 a few years ago to meet the 2020 regs."

I will post a few pictures of the stove upsidedown so anyone in the future doesnt have to go through all the work to pull the thing out. In the pictures, you can see the boost air port, which the user cannot adjust without modification or plugging it up as well as the linked air wash/secondary air control.

If anyone has the same problem I had, and no other variables have changed - ask yourself, did I clean the boost manifold recently? Have I ever cleaned it?

 

[begreen]

Yay! I'm glad the fixed turned out simple. Good sleuthing.