Pacific Energy Summit pedestal burn times question

[Whimpers Baggins]

Ok I've probably had 20 fires in this stove and I am lucky to get 5 hours on a fully loaded stove. I'm talking fire box full loaded north and south. I'm burning seasoned dry Fir (15-17%) which might be the problem but this stove seems to go through wood much faster than my last stove which was a enviro Kodiak 1700.

I have a very strong draft and I let the coals burn way down before reloading but the wood on warm reloads seems to take off quick. I damp the stove down rather quickly because if I don't I will have a pretty raging fire. My vent is probably 25' nearly straight up but there are two 45s about 8' up.

The fire at the front of the stove stays pretty vigorous and am considering blocking the boost air hole near the primary air hole to see if that makes a difference.

I've read where others have bent the tab allowing the primary air to be shut down to near zero.

Anyone have any thoughts or input? Thanks

 

[Sailrmike]

With my new stoves, granted not P.E., the door gasket seems to have an initial break-in. I give the door latch an adjustment after about a week of burning full time. You might need to do the same, I would recommend checking with "dollar bill" method

 

[Whimpers Baggins]

Thanks for the reply. I should add door is tight dollar all around. Tried the dollar bill test all over the door.

 

[begreen]

Ok I've probably had 20 fires in this stove and I am lucky to get 5 hours on a fully loaded stove. I'm talking fire box full loaded north and south. I'm burning seasoned dry Fir (15-17%) which might be the problem but this stove seems to go through wood much faster than my last stove which was a enviro Kodiak 1700.

I have a very strong draft and I let the coals burn way down before reloading but the wood on warm reloads seems to take off quick. I damp the stove down rather quickly because if I don't I will have a pretty raging fire. My vent is probably 25' nearly straight up but there are two 45s about 8' up.

The fire at the front of the stove stays pretty vigorous and am considering blocking the boost air hole near the primary air hole to see if that makes a difference.

I've read where others have bent the tab allowing the primary air to be shut down to near zero.

Anyone have any thoughts or input? Thanks

The same firebox is on our T6. Today I started it a little after 6am. It's still keeping the living room at 72-73º over 9hrs later. My guess is that the air is not being turned down soon enough and maybe not far enough. We are burning doug fir too. Your stack is 5' taller than ours. The 3 things that help are thick splits, packing the stove tightly, and turning down the air asap.
If your draft is super strong then you might need a key damper in the stovepipe.

 

[Whimpers Baggins]

The same firebox is on our T6. Today I started it a little after 6am. It's still keeping the living room at 72-73º over 9hrs later. My guess is that the air is not being turned down soon enough and maybe not far enough. We are burning doug fir too. Your stack is 5' taller than ours. The 3 things that help are thick splits, packing the stove tightly, and turning down the air asap.
If your draft is super strong then you might need a key damper in the stovepipe.

Wow thats really good. Fully loaded stove burnt down to a minimal amount of coals in 5 hours today. I turn the damper down very soon because if I don't I will have a raging fire on my hands in a short amount of time. I keep it turned all the way down also until I'm down to coals then turn it up gradually to burn the coals down.
Begreen what are your stove top temps during this time? High temp, cruise temp and at what point are you reloading?

 

[Hobbler]

I have a new Summit Classic LE.
I doubt I have 20 fires on it yet.
I also have a new BK Princess.
They are in different parts of the house.

The PE seems easier than the Princess to use, but it isn’t.
The Princess gets really long burn times, I fill it, and 12 hours later I refill it with it still half full.
That timing is just me.
I want more heat, I turn it up.
I want less heat, I turn it down.

With the PE, I don’t have it down yet and it only has one adjustment.
It burns over night, 8 or 9 hours, on a not-so-full load.
I use bigger splits.
I try my best soft wood (it isn’t winter yet here).
But, it confuses me.

However, it sure is beautiful the way it burns.
I wanted the cast, but in this size, there isn’t enamel.
I was happy to compromise.

Can you really use a key damper on a PE?
That would work with the EBT?
I guess so, why not?

I have hesitated to drill for the double wall probe and the stop top temp is just silly.

 

[begreen]

Wow thats really good. Fully loaded stove burnt down to a minimal amount of coals in 5 hours today. I turn the damper down very soon because if I don't I will have a raging fire on my hands in a short amount of time. I keep it turned all the way down also until I'm down to coals then turn it up gradually to burn the coals down.
Begreen what are your stove top temps during this time? High temp, cruise temp and at what point are you reloading?

I think the stove hit about 650º today, but I wasn't watching it closely. Lately I mostly just go by the flue temps on the Auber. You may be dealing with stronger draft which may need to be addressed. It won't hurt to temporarily close off the boost hole to see if that will help. Ours is closed off because that is where the first gen EBT fed.

I'll be reloading in about 30 minutes. Stovetop temp is currently 325º.

 

[Whimpers Baggins]

I think the stove hit about 650º today, but I wasn't watching it closely. Lately I mostly just go by the flue temps on the Auber. You may be dealing with stronger draft which may need to be addressed. It won't hurt to temporarily close off the boost hole to see if that will help. Ours is closed off because that is where the first gen EBT fed.

I'll be reloading in about 30 minutes. Stovetop temp is currently 325º.

Well I kind of feel like a dumb a$$ ha. I should have just tried covering the boost hole first before posting. I blocked the boost air hole with a magnet and reloaded. It appears as though I have gained a lot more control of the fire with the primary air now. The fire is behaving much differently now with the draft control.

I will see how it goes over several fires and reloads before I make the final judgement. Thanks for the input fellas.

 

[Prof]

I covered the boost hole in my summit within weeks of firing up the stove. It made a horrible whistling noise that would have driven me nuts! With a full load of hardwoods )beech and black birch mostly) my stove top will go up to about 700F. With the air cut back it will cruise at about 600F for 4 hrs or so and then start to taper off. 8 hrs later, the stove top is still about 2-300F, putting off some heat. There is usually a great bed of coals that make reloading easy. I'm going into the 5th season with my summit and couldn't be more pleased--it puts out a ton of heat and cooks a fair amount of my food (keeps the cats happy too).

 

[Nigel459]

Since your boost block worked, it does sound like another case of too-strong draft to me (a.k.a. Florida Bungalow Syndrome). Good news, you'll find a way to cope and enjoy that fine stove.

Florida Bungalow Syndrome

 

[davidmsem]

I covered the boost hole in my summit within weeks of firing up the stove. It made a horrible whistling noise that would have driven me nuts! With a full load of hardwoods )beech and black birch mostly) my stove top will go up to about 700F. With the air cut back it will cruise at about 600F for 4 hrs or so and then start to taper off. 8 hrs later, the stove top is still about 2-300F, putting off some heat. There is usually a great bed of coals that make reloading easy. I'm going into the 5th season with my summit and couldn't be more pleased--it puts out a ton of heat and cooks a fair amount of my food (keeps the cats happy too).

I am very interested in the Pacific Summit LE. Their customer support explains to me that they do not like installations of over 20 ft of flu yep 20 ft. After that they like consideration of the damper which I don't want to do. Anyway could show could me where the boost hole is in the Pacific Energy LE? This might be a solution for me to prevent overdrafting. I'd rather block some type of inlet hole than put a damper in.

Thank you.

 

[begreen]

It's at the center, below the ashlip, under the front of the firebox.

Did you get the name of the cs support person you spoke to?

 

[davidmsem]

It's at the center, below the ashlip, under the front of the firebox.

Did you get the name of the cs support person you spoke to?

Yes I saw the ash lip at the dealer and I think there's two holes in there. So that might be another way to control the unit if I have too much draft. You can't speak to Pacific Energy customer support as you know, you can only email them. The email did not have a person's name.

 

[begreen]

Yes I saw the ash lip at the dealer and I think there's two holes in there. So that might be another way to control the unit if I have too much draft. You can't speak to Pacific Energy customer support as you know, you can only email them. The email did not have a person's name.

One hole. You would not see this unless you had a mirror to look at the underside of the stove. I have contacted PE support to clarify the issue of flue height. There are too many in 2 story homes that work well for me to accept that statement, including my neighbor's new T6 on a 25' straight-up flue.

 

[MR. GLO]

I am very interested in the Pacific Summit LE. Their customer support explains to me that they do not like installations of over 20 ft of flu yep 20 ft. After that they like consideration of the damper which I don't want to do. Anyway could show could me where the boost hole is in the Pacific Energy LE? This might be a solution for me to prevent overdrafting. I'd rather block some type of inlet hole than put a damper in.

Thank you.

I doubt the hole will prevent over drafting with a full load. I tried and failed. A damper might work, but will decrease chimney temps on a stove that has lower chimney temps. The amount of wood you use will help but that will decrease burn times. A blower kit might help but wont change the draft. This will decrease the STT fast.

Until I see a video on a burn time past 5 hours I wont believe it on a stock PE summit. When I say burn time a reload at 300 STT and then a reload at 300 STT. I cannot find any videos.

I think the ones that get longer burn times are owners that have the stove in the home and not in the basement or a cold room.

 

[davidmsem]

One hole. You would not see this unless you had a mirror to look at the underside of the stove. I have contacted PE support to clarify the issue of flue height. There are too many in 2 story homes that work well for me to accept that statement, including my neighbor's new T6 on a 25' straight-up flue.

My dealer said exactly the same things as you. Has one in her house with even a taller run than mine. My dealer says there are no guidance no instructions for the damper, and they would have no instructions to tell how someone had to operate it. As such they won't do it.

I want the unit, don't want to set myself up to fail again. I do not want to operate this with a damper.

To remove any ambiguity, here is the email response from PE (below) regarding the Summit LE insert.

On Mar 8, 2022 10:57 AM, Support Pacific Energy <[email protected]> wrote:

Hello David

Thank you for your email inquiry. Yes, I agree a chimney that is 28’ long would have a high draft. Our wood stoves all use 6” pipe and ideally have 15’-20’ of chimney. After 20’ the draft in the chimney starts getting higher and can overfire the stove. The solution is a pipe damper. If you are interested in the Summit, I suggest you install a damper with the stove and have a draft reading done.

With kind regards,
Pacific Energy Online Support

 

[Prof]

I am very interested in the Pacific Summit LE. Their customer support explains to me that they do not like installations of over 20 ft of flu yep 20 ft. After that they like consideration of the damper which I don't want to do. Anyway could show could me where the boost hole is in the Pacific Energy LE? This might be a solution for me to prevent overdrafting. I'd rather block some type of inlet hole than put a damper in.

Thank you.

I'm not sure how much blocking the hole will cut down the air/draft, but my stack is about 32ft. I have to keep an eye on the stove so it doesn't go nuclear, but it really isn't any different than the stove I was running in my old house with half the chimney. I don't have a damper in my stove pipe--really don't think I need one or I would have installed it.

 

[begreen]

I'm not about to do a 12hr video, but I have been loading our stove at around 7:30 am every day and reloading it around 6pm depending on outside temps. Stove temp will vary. Usually it's more like 250º on a reload because the mass of the stove is keeping indoor temp at 72 or higher. This is with outdoor temps in the 35-45º range and burning softwood. If it's colder out then I will be more likely to reload around 4-5pm and a 300º stovetop.

 

[davidmsem]

I'm not sure how much blocking the hole will cut down the air/draft, but my stack is about 32ft. I have to keep an eye on the stove so it doesn't go nuclear, but it really isn't any different than the stove I was running in my old house with half the chimney. I don't have a damper in my stove pipe--really don't think I need one or I would have installed it.

I really like the Pacific Energy Summit LE insert and I don't want to run it with a damper. I won't run it. Can I ask you do you pack it full of wood and let it run? When you do so do you have to have the fan on high cuz it's going to run away? And can you share what type of peak temperatures you are seeing after a full stuffed load.

 

[MR. GLO]

I'm not about to do a 12hr video, but I have been loading our stove at around 7:30 am every day and reloading it around 6pm depending on outside temps. Stove temp will vary. Usually it's more like 250º on a reload because the mass of the stove is keeping indoor temp at 72 or higher. This is with outdoor temps in the 35-45º range and burning softwood. If it's colder out then I will be more likely to reload around 4-5pm and a 300º stovetop.

Do you know your draft and is the stove located in a heated room or warm room?

I'll try the soft wood.

Thanks for info.

 

[begreen]

Our stove is in the living room. I burn doug fir and fairly thick splits.

On thing about the PE Summit insert that might help if draft is an issue - there is an option with this insert to use outside air. It has a back cover that is removed for this option. When one does this, there is a front cover so that it doesn't use the room air. Most installations require removing the front cover to use room air.

Leaving the rear cover on it may be possible to just partially uncover the front intake (or drill holes in it) to reduce overall combustion air. This is described on page 18 of the manual. The front cover is accessible without removing the insert. That said, I would first try running for a couple months with the front cover completely removed per the manual. It may be fine.

 

[Prof]

I really like the Pacific Energy Summit LE insert and I don't want to run it with a damper. I won't run it. Can I ask you do you pack it full of wood and let it run? When you do so do you have to have the fan on high cuz it's going to run away? And can you share what type of peak temperatures you are seeing after a full stuffed load.

I regularly stuff the summit with as much wood as will fit. I like sitting by the fire, so it is no burden to me to watch it for the next 20-30 min so I can dial down the air to keep stack temps below 800F and stovetop around 6-700F. Of course, with a full load of hardwoods and a tall stack, an overfire is always possible. Though it has only happened a few times, I have had stack temps around 1100. I don't know what the stove top was at since I was focused on cooling things down. Opening the door during an overfire will bring stack temps down to a reasonable temp in 10-15 min. Learning when to cut the air down is key to stopping things from getting away from you. If I had to get another stove tomorrow (which I don't plan on since I suspect the summit has at least a decade of service left) I would go buy another summit. The stove is as sturdy as they come. Even the EPA 2020 model doesn't seem to sacrifice durability for performance based on the specs I've seen.

 

[davidmsem]

I regularly stuff the summit with as much wood as will fit. I like sitting by the fire, so it is no burden to me to watch it for the next 20-30 min so I can dial down the air to keep stack temps below 800F and stovetop around 6-700F. Of course, with a full load of hardwoods and a tall stack, an overfire is always possible. Though it has only happened a few times, I have had stack temps around 1100. I don't know what the stove top was at since I was focused on cooling things down. Opening the door during an overfire will bring stack temps down to a reasonable temp in 10-15 min. Learning when to cut the air down is key to stopping things from getting away from you. If I had to get another stove tomorrow (which I don't plan on since I suspect the summit has at least a decade of service left) I would go buy another summit. The stove is as sturdy as they come. Even the EPA 2020 model doesn't seem to sacrifice durability for performance based on the specs I've seen.

Thanks. I love the unit I love the piercing gasket, the beef and ruggedness of it, a shape of the firebox.

When I go to bed I usually have the fire choked all the way down and my Regency 3100 could run up to six or 650 on the face.

I think with the next unit, when I do a full load at night and get it up to temperature, I will run the fan on high since I won't be there to monitor. I don't think it could hurt the unit to run it too cool. It probably shaves 100° off it with the fans running I don't know. Could be the difference between damaging it and not damaging it. I'm just coming off a really bad month realizing my unit had cracked.

I'm just shocked Pacific energy told me with my height, 28 feet, to run it with a damper. I do not want to run an insert with a damper.

It would be nice if it qualified for the 26% tax credit but it does not.

David

 

[DuaeGuttae]

I'm just shocked Pacific energy told me with my height, 28 feet, to run it with a damper. I do not want to run an insert with a damper.

Why, out of curiosity? Is it just lack of familiarity? Worry about setting up a damper for an insert? The dealer’s reluctance?

I grew up with a pre-EPA Lange woodstove that my mother still uses to heat her house. (She’s 85 and has been processing firewood just about every day this spring after a bad winter storm broke a lot of her trees. She runs circles around me.). It was just part of the routine to adjust the air controls on the door and then to flip the damper on the stovepipe. Our first EPA fireplace insert had a bypass damper at the flue, and it seemed quite natural to me. It was harder for me to get used to inserts that lacked that step, though I realize that is indeed the vast majority. It just really seemed bizarre the first time I ever encountered one since dampers had always been part of my wood burning experience.

I would think the most important thing would be to make sure that your insert is running according to specified draft numbers. In your email correspondence with PE did they ever actually give you a number?

The front cover that Begreen posted about above may make the whole issue of a damper unnecessary, of course. That sounds like it could be a good solution.

 

[begreen]

Why, out of curiosity? Is it just lack of familiarity? Worry about setting up a damper for an insert? The dealer’s reluctance?

I contacted PE with those questions. It sounds like an ill-informed support person expressing a personal opinion. There are thousands of PE stoves in 2 story houses with ~ 25' flues. FWIW, PE stoves in operate similarly to Enviro stoves which are also easy breathers.