PB 105 Long ignition times ,Lots of smoke outside & Explosion with Sparks and Smoke inside the house

[MAS]

First I would like to say Thanks for this forum and The people who have giving me Help and suggestion to fix my new Harman PB 105. There was no way I could live it the way it was. It just was not Safe

New Harman PB 105 installed in Oct 2013 Now Feb 16 2014

PROBLEMS
1) Smoke inside the house from leaking stove pipe
2) Long ignition times from 1 to 10 min
3) Lots of smoke outside making my neighbors think my house was on fire
4) Bad auger motor
5) Explosion with sparks and smoke from the boiler inside the house

THE FIX
Tighter fit stove pipe which helped cut down on ignition times and smoke in the house and outside
Changed the Dip switches to the lowest setting
Change Auger motor
Found air Leaking from ash door and Hopper Seems and hopper gasket. silicone seems and gasket.
Changed circuit board from A to D it is a updated board. Not sure what this has did for me yet.

I think the air leaks caused most of the problems.

All this took about 5 months to troubleshoot and fix. Also it took 5 months to get a Harman Rep here to help

It seems to be igniting in about 1 minute Little smoke outside. No explosion. I hope it keeps on working this way
It has only been a couple of days. Will have to see. Maybe this info will help someone else out that is having problems with there Harman PB 105. In my case the dealer and Harman should have had better Troubleshooting skills. It would have save a lot of time if I could have talked to the Harman Rep months ago.

 

[hyfire]

Damn, it all sounds pretty scary to me...glad its 100% fixed?

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

Glad you got it all sorted out. It sounds like you've suffered through a lot of frustration. I think you're right in pointing to the air leaks as the main source of your trouble -- they can delay or even prevent ignition. Then you get the smoke and explosions.

 

[Lake Girl]

Was that the dealer that took that long to get there or a service tech?

 

[Lake Girl]

Was that the dealer that took that long to get there or a service tech?

 

[Ejectr]

I would have demanded from the dealer that the stove be removed and replaced.

 

[MAS]

The stove pipe leaking took until End of Dec to fix. We had Reps the stove pipe company come here to see it leak. Than they made a special pipe tighter fit that worked. So after the pipe was fixed than they worked on the other problems. But it really what the dealer tells harman reps. The dealer had no more ideas on what to do to fix it. so we kept calling back . We gave them videos,pictures and lots of data. We wanted to talk to Harman But have no way to reach them.That why I think Harman should have tech support phone number that people could call. We thought about getting legal advice because we just were not getting the support we needed. We like the boiler we just wanted it to work right and safe

 

[iceguy4]

I would have demanded from the dealer that the stove be removed and replaced.

I'm not sure where people get the idea that there entitled to a brand new machine because of problems . Its not a coffee pot or mixer. Its a piece of machinery like an automobile...lots of parts that have little or no affect on the operation of the unit. Yes you're entitled to "assemblies" ... A whole new unit...I don't think so. Could it rise to that level....yes but this situation doesn't rise to that level...imHo these boilers are very heavy and awkward to place in most basements (I lowered mine into the bilco entrance after I removed stairs) THEN you have to move into place, THEN integrate it into the heating system and then Exhaust it and Intake it) In my application I would estimate the labor at 10+ hours to R&R (remove and replace). I can understand a complete wire harness or new components.
The next issue is determining exactly what is actually happening. My problem started the same , but manifested itself by putting un-burnt pellets in the ash pan. It took me a while but I finally caught it in "the act"

 

[kinsmanstoves]

First I would like to say Thanks for this forum and The people who have giving me Help and suggestion to fix my new Harman PB 105. There was no way I could live it the way it was. It just was not Safe

New Harman PB 105 installed in Oct 2013 Now Feb 16 2014

PROBLEMS
1) Smoke inside the house from leaking stove pipe
2) Long ignition times from 1 to 10 min
3) Lots of smoke outside making my neighbors think my house was on fire
4) Bad auger motor
5) Explosion with sparks and smoke from the boiler inside the house

THE FIX
Tighter fit stove pipe which helped cut down on ignition times and smoke in the house and outside
Changed the Dip switches to the lowest setting
Change Auger motor
Found air Leaking from ash door and Hopper Seems and hopper gasket. silicone seems and gasket.
Changed circuit board from A to D it is a updated board. Not sure what this has did for me yet.

I think the air leaks caused most of the problems.

All this took about 5 months to troubleshoot and fix. Also it took 5 months to get a Harman Rep here to help

It seems to be igniting in about 1 minute Little smoke outside. No explosion. I hope it keeps on working this way
It has only been a couple of days. Will have to see. Maybe this info will help someone else out that is having problems with there Harman PB 105. In my case the dealer and Harman should have had better Troubleshooting skills. It would have save a lot of time if I could have talked to the Harman Rep months ago.

Where was the dealer during all this?

Eric

 

[MAS]

The dealer came back I think 8 times to fix the the stove pipe leaking and that was from Oct to Dec. Than they came once in Jan. Bought there plumber. They thought it had to be hooked up wrong. That was after they talked to our plumber and he told them how it was hooked up and has installed other units. Our plumber had offered to talk to the harman reps. But that never happen. All this time they told us they were in contact with Harman Reps and updating them.. Than after they brought there plumber and had no idea how to fix it.28 days later they come back with a Harman Rep. We would not run the boiler when we were gone away. I have video of the explosions. One time it set our smoke alarms off in the morning at 2:00 am filled the house with smoke. That why I said Harman needs a way give support to the owner. We have no idea what the dealer was telling Harman or what harman was telling the dealer. I just hope it keep running good I don't want to do this again.

 

[iceguy4]

That why I said Harman needs a way give support to the owner.

I find it odd that they don't have a tech line....certainly a down side to Harman.

 

[smwilliamson]

Do you have the forced ignition or the 15 fin igniter inside the burnpot? What you are describing is enough fuel but either not enough heat or enough air for ignition. Usually its the later. Long horizontal runs, excessive ash build up, clogged burn pot hole and obstructions with in the air stream from inlet to exhaust outlet or ash covering the ignition cartridge all lead to these explosive smokey start ups. Think about it. You have enough fuel. You have enough heat. Then all of a sudden you have enough air. POOOOF! Sounds like a dirty set up. I'm kinda coming in here late and haven't read through everything but it sounds like an air issue. If you have the passive ignition system on your boiler, you may want to consider up grading to the forced ignition system. Kinda alleviates all of these problems. My M55 insert has a forced ignition system and I get 2 minute flame regardless of how dirty the system is, every time. They do make a forced igniton for the PB105.

 

[smwilliamson]

Can you describe your venting config? Picture perhaps?

 

[MAS]

Do you have the forced ignition or the 15 fin igniter inside the burnpot? What you are describing is enough fuel but either not enough heat or enough air for ignition. Usually its the later. Long horizontal runs, excessive ash build up, clogged burn pot hole and obstructions with in the air stream from inlet to exhaust outlet or ash covering the ignition cartridge all lead to these explosive smokey start ups. Think about it. You have enough fuel. You have enough heat. Then all of a sudden you have enough air. POOOOF! Sounds like a dirty set up. I'm kinda coming in here late and haven't read through everything but it sounds like an air issue. If you have the passive ignition system on your boiler, you may want to consider up grading to the forced ignition system. Kinda alleviates all of these problems. My M55 insert has a forced ignition system and I get 2 minute flame regardless of how dirty the system is, every time. They do make a forced igniton for the PB105.

It was all caused by air leak into the firebox from the hopper and ash door. It has forced ignition . evey thing was clean over and over again and the stove pipe was cleaned or change out. it ignites in about a 1 minute now hopefully it fixed

 

[MAS]

It was all caused by air leak into the firebox from the hopper and ash door. It has forced ignition . evey thing was clean over and over again and the stove pipe was cleaned or change out. it ignites in about a 1 minute now hopefully it fixed

the venting is up 5 1/2 feet, elbow and out 3 feet with a jet cap

 

[AndrewChurchill]

It was all caused by air leak into the firebox from the hopper and ash door. It has forced ignition . evey thing was clean over and over again and the stove pipe was cleaned or change out. it ignites in about a 1 minute now hopefully it fixed

As I suspected.

 

[kinsmanstoves]

I find it odd that they don't have a tech line....certainly a down side to Harman.

Adding a customer tech line is not needed with good dealers. Would you like the added expense of adding these techs to the cost of the stove? (They will need to be paid, benefit package, and equipment) I have not purchased a new car in a while but if you buy a car do you deal with the dealer or deal with the car maker?

Eric

 

[MAS]

Adding a customer tech line is not needed with good dealers. Would you like the added expense of adding these techs to the cost of the stove? (They will need to be paid, benefit package, and equipment) I have not purchased a new car in a while but if you buy a car do you deal with the dealer or deal with the car maker?

Eric

It hard to deal with stove maker when they don't want to hear from you. That is part of the problem. But your right the Dealer should be your best resourse. But if the problem goes on and on In my case several months the stove maker should take over. The tech are all ready at Harman. But only the dealer can reach them.

 

[iceguy4]

Adding a customer tech line is not needed with good dealers. Would you like the added expense of adding these techs to the cost of the stove? (They will need to be paid, benefit package, and equipment) I have not purchased a new car in a while but if you buy a car do you deal with the dealer or deal with the car maker?

Eric

You are right, it will add to the cost of the stove ...just like the pay of the Harman rep who came to the house cost $$$...but it will(and does) keep the "dealer principals" on their toes. I'll bet they could hire 2or 3 phone tech's for the cost of one rep flying around the country. I worked many (too many) years at a large ford dealership as a service mgr. trust me when I say, when you get a call from Ford about a customers concerns....you address them...or else. Now I have read this thread, and Harman should have been brought into the "loop" much sooner....imHo Also this customer had close to $9000.00 invested in a piece of equipment he couldn't use Personally I think SOMEONE dropped the ball. and the bottom line is ...his boiler has a name plate....it says "HARMAN" I see a ton of free pellets in your future...

It reminds me of some government official saying about snow and ice down south..." I don't care how much it costs now...we have to fix this." Now I'll grant there is NO politician who cares how much of "our" money gets spent...BUT there comes a time when we must over ride the "bean counters" ...and fix the S.O.B. a...and that time was exceeded by 3+ weeks. SOOooo what do we have here....a company who thinks their product is SO good that we "don't speak with the little people" arrogance???
Or did they "drop the ball" ignorance?? Harman is a great stove ...and I love mine...BUT they aren't the only "game in town" I'm starting to see some pretty nice equipment starting to come down the pipeline.

In closing ...Increased sales created by the lack of "bad press like this thread) could offset costs of a tech line. (sub it out to Asia like everyone else does)....press 1 to hear in "engrish"

 

[iceguy4]

Adding a customer tech line is not needed with good dealers

No truer words have been spoken ...Key word "good"
With the system as it is , Harman's information about their product and support is 100% filtered through their dealerships. The other side of the coin is getting negative feedback from a customer tech line would quickly point out dealers who are weak on service. dealers who skimp on education or maybe skimp on $$ to keep an educated tech "on board". Not just give "platinum dealerships" based only on sales....Just saying.

 

[kinsmanstoves]

It hard to deal with stove maker when they don't want to hear from you. That is part of the problem. But your right the Dealer should be your best resourse. But if the problem goes on and on In my case several months the stove maker should take over. The tech are all ready at Harman. But only the dealer can reach them.

And we are on hold when we call.

 

[kinsmanstoves]

It hard to deal with stove maker when they don't want to hear from you. That is part of the problem. But your right the Dealer should be your best resourse. But if the problem goes on and on In my case several months the stove maker should take over. The tech are all ready at Harman. But only the dealer can reach them.

I am not bashing a dealer I don't know but it does look like this took longer than it should. I have a real good Sales Rep, (Ross) and if I am having a customer problem I go to him and we work on it together. If still more help is needed then he can call in another guy that is a trouble shooter from Harman, I have never seen this Ninja with a DDM. Can a "customer phone tech", do all this without a constant phone ringing, I don't think so.

Eric

 

[MAS]

Well you got it made. All I wanted was it to work right and safe. I gave them lots of data. I got my own DDM

 

[iceguy4]

Well you got it made. All I wanted was it to work right and safe. I gave them lots of data. I got my own DDM

Where did you get that and how much $$

 

[wil lanfear]

Where did you get that and how much $$

I would like one also but I can't justify the $350.00 I was quoted to purchase it.