PE Pacific Insert Not Bullet-Proof

[BrotherBart]

Ya better send me your phone number for my one call then. The OL aint got a pot to wiz in.

They just have got to change that stuff to one call and/or email. But I ain't kidding bro. But just remember that it costs me the same for you threatening to hit him that it does for actually hitting him. Get my money's worth. :coolgrin:

And get the 30 hooked up. Cold is on the doorstep and I don't wanna be freezing up there.

 

[madison]

QC checklist? I am jealous, mine didn't have one. Now I know mine was a second shift after "lunch break" model.

 

[BrotherBart]

QC checklist? I am jealous, mine didn't have one. Now I know mine was a second shift after "lunch break" model.

My first Englander 30 had a QC check off inside it. And it had a major manufacturing defect. Those pieces of paper are not even good kindling.

 

[Hogwildz]

Took these photos at higher quality setting,
Gonna even print them on photo paper.

 

[pen]

Those are great looking pics. That quality speaks a lot of your intentions to pursue this case with them. Quality picture evidence is as good as live ammunition Well, metaphorically anyway. Regardless, those pics show an owner who takes care of his equipment and knows better than to overfire (whatever overfireing means!)

pen

 

[crazy_dan]

Left upper door opening, is a crap weld the crack is strait down the middle of the weld.

 

[Hogwildz]

I highly doubt these welds are automated.
Looks a bit sloppy to me.

 

[drdoct]

Sloppy is being nice. Looks like a bird dumped all over it then tried to take the grinder to make it look nice. If I were them, I'd be ashamed to even answer your email!

I edited this to add that I'd probably send 1 or 2 that you've got with the thermometers showing. Even a mention that you know this is not an isolated incident. I sure hope they make it right.... for their sakes.

 

[Hogwildz]

Pen, thanks, I am on a mission. And a force to be reckoned with LOL.
Dan, I completely agree! As I stated in another post, a good weld should never crack down the middle.
If done properly, it should be stronger than the steel surrounding it. The steel should crack or tear first. Even adge the side edge of the weld would prove a good weld. But never down the center or through the weld.
At least that was what I was taught. Any certified welders, please feel free to comment. Even if I am wrong about the strength of a weld. I need all the fuel I can get to fight this if need be.
These don't look so bad. The first one near the top weld looks like the weld may not have penetrated some. Or maybe its a good penetration and has an edge there, Hard to tell. But def better than the others.

 

[Hogwildz]

I think I am going to print all these out, and show that some welds look ok, which makes the shatty welds really stand out.
Where the cracks are, it seems like there is no way to get back into the back of the crack, without cutting the inner steel horizontal plating out. Otherwise is is shove a welding rod back there and hope to get it.
I am not hopeful. Kinda wishing they would just replace the damned thing. But I ain't going to hold my breath.
I'm talking about the first pics I posts tonight.
These are just more of what I saw. Good & bad.
Should I use the first inner opening crack photo, or is this one better?

 

[Hogwildz]

I took some of the baffle too, might as well try for a new one of these too.

 

[Hogwildz]

One more of the baffle.
One more of the welds inner front upper horizontal .
And the best for last............ The QC card, this should be the clincher as far as I am concerned.
A check list is just that, check each thing and check the box after inspected ok. NOT a scribbled line through all the boxes at once.
2 guys did that, the last one did it right. Kinda scary.
Notice the welding inspection is one of the scribblers.

 

[pen]

I think your analysis of the way that card is filled out is spot on and proves your point that this stove came pre-destined to have a failure due to manufacturing defects / flaws that were overlooked.

pen

 

[karri0n]

I would put a link to this thread. I'm certain the folks at PE are aware of this site and the business it brings them. Just two years ago was PE summit year here, before woodstock cleaned house on the forums. I'm sure both manufacturers at least realize this site has more than a minimal effect on sales.

Maybe we can get an official apology to the hearth.com members :coolgrin:

 

[Sisu]

Good job Hog! You did alot of work cleaning up the areas where the cracked welds are. I will try to do the same this weekend and take pictures of the results, if I get the time.

I still haven't heard anything from PE. My claim timeline so far for these issues is as follows:

-Wednesday September 09, 2009 - I called the dealership headquarters (since the local dealership no longer was in business) in regard to the cracked baffle (I noticed it when I swept my chimney). After the call, I sent an email to the contact along with pictures of the baffle.

-Monday September 14, 2009 - I was forwarded an email sent from the dealership contact to PE stating:
"I had this customer contact me regarding a warranty concern/issue on a Pacific Energy Medium Insert. Attached are photos of the baffle as well as the receipt and serial number. Would you be able to contact this customer as well as myself so we can get this resolved. Please address this as soon as possible seeing as the heating season is upon us."

-Wednesday September 16 - I called the dealership contact. He said that they will get me a new baffle, but stated mine might not even be SS (even though I was told it was when I bought it and I am sure the manual states the part is) but they will honour the warranty. He will contact me as soon as it arrives.

-Sunday September 27, 2009 - I took everything out of the stove and vacuumed it out, noticing the cracked welds.

-Monday September 28, 2009 - I registered and posted on this site for the first time in regard to the cracked baffle and welds looking for advice. I then telephoned the dealership contact and sent the photos via email. He stated the baffle will still be replaced and is waiting for it. He also made the comment that the crack in the baffle was a seam and not a crack (see my earlier posts).

-Tuesday September 29, 2009 - I telephoned the dealership contact to make sure the photos were received and forwarded to PE. He said it had been forwarded to PE. I did not get cc'd this time if he forwarded my email.

-Wednesday September 30, 2009 - I filled in the online Service/Technical support form on the PE website, to ask if my warranty claim had been received and if they required any other information.

-Thursday October 01, 2009 - I telephoned the dealership contact to see what was happening. See my earlier posts for info on this conversation.

So where am I at right now, since this process started (almost a full month now):

-PE has yet to contact me. I have not received any correspondance from them at all.
-I have only received one email from the dealership headquarters, which was a forward to PE in regard to the original baffle claim that I was cc'd on. So far I have to keep calling the dealership to get any information.
-I have no baffle replacement, even though the dealership stated that it would be replaced. A moot point now, considering the cracked welds in the firebox.
-My stove is cold and sitting on blocks, so to speak. The gas furnace is running, since the weather here is cold and miserable.
-I don't have any real indication what is happening in regard to the warranty claim via PE, no real idea what the outcome will be nor how long this process will take. The timeline so far indicates that the process could move at a snails pace.

What does everyone think about this? Is this acceptable? I hope Hog has a better time with his dealer and PE!

 

[madison]

The pre paint signature on the "QC" checklist is classic, looks like whomever spent more time with the signature than the inspection.

 

[Bigg_Redd]

Like you said Hog, I too run mine fairly hard. 24/7 for almost all of the fall/winter/spring seasons. But there should be a difference between running hard and overfiring. It is a wood stove insert. It is not for decoration (even though it looks nice) and is meant to have a fire in it and produce heat.

Are you going to still run yours as is or shut it down for now? The cracks along the upper door openings are the biggest concerns, since they are allowing air to pass into the firebox and could allow for hotter fires. I am not running mine now and took the baffle, bricks etc out. It is going to be +3 degrees Celsius (37.4 Fahrenheit) tonight.

24/7 running of a wood stove should not be considered running it hard. You might pass on to your respective dealers that there are a few hundred eyeballs watching this issue right now. The only time I have seen my stove get over comfortable hot temps is when the EBT fed a full fuel load with more air than it needed at full secondary burn. That is why my EBT hole is now plugged and out of operation.

What's the EBT hole?

 

[Sisu]

Okay. I found the time. It seems things are even worse than I originally thought. See for yourself:

This is the left top corner of the door rim. The weld is cracked and the exterior steel also exhibits a crack.

 

[Sisu]

This is the top left inside corner area.

 

[Sisu]

This is the right top inside corner area.

 

[Sisu]

This is the boost manifold and shelf. The weld around the hole shows evidence of the weld delaminating. I didn't realize before that the hole goes all the way through the firebox to the outside, always allowing outside air to pass. Is that the area that ensures an EPA rating no matter if the damper is on low?

 

[Sisu]

Here is a closeup of the hole and weld in the boost manifold shelf. Wow that was a tight space to work in to take all these photos.

 

[lobsta1]

I know I am definitely watching this thread to find out how PE handles these defective stoves. My belief is that they will accommodate the posters on this site & then do away with the lifetime warranty on new sales.

Companies are becoming much more aware of the power of NEGATIVE advertising on the net. One or two bad stories spread over multiple web sites can easily out shine years of advertising. About 8 years ago I installed a new fridge in my boat. I ordered it at the local BoatUs store from the catalog as they were not normally stocked. The reason I picked that particular fridge was due to the reputation of the maker. I did not realize that the company had been bought out by a conglomerate. Turns out the fridge I purchased was just a re-badged model from the RV division. ONE week after install my boat was "waked" by a passing boat. The door ripped off the fridge. There was no way to repair it. BoatUs said it was a warranty problem. The maker said it was not normal usage & not covered!

I posted on the BoatUs site in the Consumer Affairs forum. When the thread got up to 9 pages long I forwarded the link to the support personnel & a week later the manufacturer offered me a free replacement. Bottom line is that too many people are researching on the net before making a purchase of a stove. When they search on PE, google will bring this thread up. Guess how many potential buyers will pass on a PE product. I know I was seriously thinking with the tax credit of upgrading my stove to a Summit insert. Guess who is now hesitating?
Al

 

[meathead]

Man these things are a sloppy mess. Pathetic the OP has been at it for a month without hearing a peep from the manufacturer. Not to mention...the dealer being out of busines seems to be a common trend. I gotta say though, you PE people must be a patient bunch, because thus far everyone has resisted the urge to let the &^#% talking fly. I'm curious to see how this thing goes. Maybe everyone with a proplem should throw a group e-mail together and send it off. DOn't bother including your pics in the e-mail, just tell them that to see pictures of the problem areas they can refer to this thread.

...It's a metal box that holds fire...even if you were consistantly overfiring (which we still don't have a definition for), warping should occur along with some of those cracks. All I see is a bunch of sloppy welds that didn't stand a chance even if you never had a fire in the thing.

 

[jqgs214]

Will be checking my welds tonight! I hope this isn't my 2nd stove with bad welds my first stove (VC) was replaced with this PE under warranty. Long story you can search for the thread if you like.