PE Summit Insert Blowing Warm Air

[Jodi]

I had a PE Summit insert installed 1 month ago. Our installer installed a full SS liner (uninsulated) into an exterior chimney without a block off plate (installer stuff fiberglass around damper and flue). Also, SS flue collar is only installed approx. 3/8-inch onto the black insert collar, and the hole on the insert collar is open and is making a whistling sound when in operation. I paid $700.00 to have this installed.

The problem I am having is the blower is only blowing warm air (~80 F) out of the middle and warmer air on the side away from the blower. I can get the insert up to 510 F, but when the blower turns on, it only blows warm air and it cools the top of the insert to ~200 F in front of the blower, while the front of the insert is still 500 F. Thus, it is heating the room (~18' X ~25') it is in to only 70 F.

I plan on removing the insert and insulating the liner with a 1/2-inch wrap and installing a full block off plate. Do you think this will give me hot air from blower and solve my problem or is something else an issue? I have heard of some others having similar issues with the PE Summit insert. PE is sending a new blower under warranty, but I don't think it will help as I get good air flow now.

Also, can I use rock wool to insulate the top of the block off plate around the flue.
Thanks.

 

[jqgs214]

I have the next size smaller PE insert and If I run it at only 510, my air is only warm also. Are you running the blower on high?? I always run mine on low unless I get temps up to 750 or so. Crank her up a bit more than 510 more like 600-650. Also where are you measuring that temp?? Put the thermometer above the right hand coner of the door if yours fits there. That is a single wall of steel there and give a good measurement out of the blower air flow.

 

[Gunner]

Get that dealer to come back and fix the collar to liner connection and put a good block off plate in there. Load it up with dry wood and report back. I have heard of people using ROXUL but have no personal experience with it.


How tall is the liner/chimney?

Standing next to my freestanding summit at 500 and the heat is very mild...it feels like HEAT once it gets to 650 ++ Crank it up

How is your wood?

 

[karl]

The way the fan and baffles are set up on the Summit, you will only get air flow on the middle and left side of the insert. As far as 80 degrees is concerned. I would check your thermometer. I have an uninsulated liner with a block off plate and my air is 100 degrees as soon as the insert gets warm enough to turn the blower on. Once the stove gets warmed up, it blows out in the 200 degree range. You can't stand to put your hand in front of if for more than a minute or so.

I did an unscientific test on my stove and found there to only be about 10-15 degree temperature change between the medium and high fan settings.

 

[Jodi]

My chimney is 18-20 feet tall, but I have a corner fireplace so the is an off-set of an additional 5 feet to get to the fireplace. I have been taking the temperature above the right corner of the door and it gets to 500 F.

My wood is 1 year old oak that seems to be dry, and I have tried oak from a friend of mine who has a stove and he gets his house very hot, but I still could only get my insert to 500 F with his wood. I can get a very nice fire going with a full load of wood, and after an overnight burn, the insert will be at 325 F about 7 hours later.

One other thing I noticed is that in the top back of the insert just below the baffle there is some type of alienment hole with nothing in it. Should there be an alienment pin in that hole? If so, it never came with the insert.
Thanks,

 

[karl]

That hole should have a little pin in it. It's what holds the baffle in place. Take a screw driver and push it through the hole to make sure things are lined up. I doubt you really need the pin it all the time. Aslo your baffle is probably lined up correctly. I just took mine out for cleaning and they pretty much fall back in place. Actually, after replacing the baffle, the rails on the sides are more likely to be out of alignment than the baffle itself.

I'm not getting the crazy heat out of my insert that guys here are talking about with the stove version, but it does do really well. I have a 2400 square foot house and I haven't had the furnace on this year. It's sometimes a little cold in the mornings.

 

[jqgs214]

Was told that pin is just for shipping purposes and you dont need it once installed. Tell us about your burning practices, I get my stove to about 200 and damper half way, let it roll and blower kicks in at 300 deg. RELOAD HER FULL UP not just 2-3 pieces, let those rip 5 min full, nother five min at 1/2 damp and then I close her all the way up and the temp goes from like 450 to 700 or so depending on the load. Thats where she really cranks out the heat. Given my stove is one size smaller thatn yours but she should crank up. With a full full load I can damper down at 400deg at 9:30 pm round 10:30 the stove will be a 750 or so for like an hours then slowly cool off to about 250 at 6:00 am. When the stove gets over 650 I get temps in my 12x24/12x12 "L" shaped room to 75+

 

[PAJerry]

The pin is not needed. If you happen to remove the baffle to clean above it, when putting it back in just push it all the way back and turn the tabs at the front of the rail the baffle sets on to hold it tight against the back of the stove. At least that is how the Vista is set up, so I assume the rest of the PE line is about the same.

My Vista does give me 'crazy heat' now that I put 3 inches of kaowool on the top and sides of the insert. A block off plate will help, but the extra insulation has really helped the heat output from the blower. The little stove can heat us out of the house if the temp is over 35 outside so we have to watch how we load it up.

 

[Hogwildz]

If you load the crap out of it, and the top splits push on the baffle, without the pin, you will be lifting the baffle off rests & the air chamber on the back. I suggest getting/leaving the pin in. I know I load mine to the gills and the pin holds the baffle from raising up in the back. That pin also keeps the baffle centered, and it will fall off one side of the other if it works its way to one side or enough somehow. May be fine without it, but why take the chance on something so simple?

 

[Jodi]

Thanks for the great information. I have been letting the insert get to about 400 F, load the insert with a full load and wait about 30 minutes, then I damper down to 1/2, and then would damper down all the way once it got to 500 F, but it wouldn't really get any hotter. I'll try your way wxman and see if I can get higher insert temperatures.

PAJerrry...I have thought about putting koawool around the outside of the surround to get better heat, but wasn't sure if that was ok. Sounds like a good idea. Where did you purchase your koawool?

I called Pacific Energy today and they are going to send me a baffle pin.
Thanks Again,

 

[Hogwildz]

Shamong, I would call PE and ask about loading insulation around the insert before doing so. I believe the insert is supposed to be able to have at least a small air space on the sides, & top to release heat and keep from overfiring. If I am wrong, I am wrong, but wouldn't hurt to call PE and ask. Not worth losing a warranty over. The few times I have seen it discussed, it was discouraged.

 

[Gunner]

That air leak at the collar connection is acting like a barometric damper...letting a bunch of air in that would normally be coming in through the stove, and decreasing your draft. Once it is sealed I bet your draft will improve.

With good wood and good draft that stove will be up over 500 in NO TIME.

Hopefully the collar connection will tighten things up and the stove will pull more air were it is supposed to, air is heat.

When you place and split of dry wood on a good bed of coals is should light up almost instantly.

 

[Jodi]

Hog...Sounds like a good idea. I'll call PE and see what they recommend.

Yes, the exposed hole in the collar may be sucking heat off the insert and up the flue. It is concerning because when I first get a good fire going I can see flames in the hole of the insert collar. The flames go away after a few minutes. I think the SS flue should be installed deeper into the insert collar to cover the hole.

 

[Hogwildz]

Hog...Sounds like a good idea. I'll call PE and see what they recommend.

Yes, the exposed hole in the collar may be sucking heat off the insert and up the flue. It is concerning because when I first get a good fire going I can see flames in the hole of the insert collar. The flames go away after a few minutes. I think the SS flue should be installed deeper into the insert collar to cover the hole.

Bro, that stove adapter should be tight, and you should see NO light or fire at it period! Gunner makes a very valid point. Your heats could be going up the stack rather than out the front. I forget, sorry if asked, but is there a block off plate installed at damper area?

 

[Hogwildz]

For those of you who feel the baffle "retaining" pin is not needed. Your choice. This is direct from the manual.

 

[Jodi]

No, there is no block off plate installed. The installer put fiberglass insulation around damper and flue.

 

[Hogwildz]

No, there is no block off plate installed. The installer put fiberglass insulation around damper and flue.

Ok, here is something to think about.
Block off plate properly installed and sealed no draft at ALL!
Fiberglass insulation installed (undesireable at best). fiberglass does not stop air flow, may slow it, but does not stop it.
Now picture this, stoves chugging away, the blowers blowing across the top and hitting the diverters and pushing air out. Now picture the air that the blower takes in is cold from the right side of the insert (looking at insert from front) and guides it along the hot top of the insert and is also grabbing cold air from the chimney through the fiberglass thus cooling the air thats being heated up across the stove top. My money would be on a block off plate installation. More times than not, you will notice an immediate difference. Get that biach up to about 500-550 full air if you can, shut air down, she should climb to 750, then let us know what kind of heat is blowing out that top? You should be getting great secondary at 500+, at 750 its monster secondary.

 

[Jodi]

Hog...What you are saying makes sense. The blower could be pushing cold air across the top of the insert. I will put a block off plate in and it will likely make a big difference.
Thanks For Your Help,

 

[Gunner]

Hog...Sounds like a good idea. I'll call PE and see what they recommend.

Yes, the exposed hole in the collar may be sucking heat off the insert and up the flue. It is concerning because when I first get a good fire going I can see flames in the hole of the insert collar. The flames go away after a few minutes. I think the SS flue should be installed deeper into the insert collar to cover the hole.

My point was not that heat off the insert is going up the gap at the collar connection. Rather that the gap at the collar connection is reducing your draft. Imagine you had a crack in the hose of your shop vac and how it would reduce suction...once you fix the collar connection all that air that you hear whistling threw that gap at the collar is going to be coming in the air intake of the stove where it is supposed to. That will increase your draft, and provided your wood is dry you should have no trouble getting the stove up to 6-700.

Once she is hot the block off plate will help to hold the heat in and let the blowers do there job of getting the heat out into the room. Hopefully this solves you problem.

 

[Hogwildz]

Gu8nner is absolutely right. Get that sucker titght at the adapter , then get a block off plate in there. At the very worst, your just made the install safer.