Pellet "Log" Cages

[Augie]

OK so here is my idea. Primary air comes in from air wash. If you could somehow fit a assembly to fit snugly against this intake and then plumb it to the base of the pile of pellets, maybe use stainless tube with hole drilled in it for the portion under the pellets as the draft gets going ti will draw air up through the pile supercharging the fire just like the blower in a pellet stove. You then have control over the air being fed to the pellets, Start with some kindling on a pile of pellets, bet I would even get secondary burn as well..... yup gonna try this.

 

[firefighterjake]

Maybe it's just me . . . but I always figure I bought a woodstove . . . not a pelletstove . . . and not a bio-mass burner. Hence the reason I put firewood into my stove.

Now I understand that some folks may come across some wood pellets or see a pile of woodchips and think it would be great to have the ability to burn that wood as well . . . but quite frankly woodstoves, pelletstoves and bio-mass burners are designed specifically to burn the different types of fuel. Attempting modifications and changes to get a burner to burn a different type of fuel that it was not designed for makes as much sense as putting a whole lot of small splits into a woodstove and expecting it to work . . . or attempting to modify an oil boiler to burn gasoline . . . or . . . well you get the idea.

 

[daleeper]

firefighterjake, I think along the same lines, however, I can see someone with a wood stove that would be short for the season stretching out their wood supply with pellets, or needing an emergency supply of wood for whatever reason might want the ability to burn pellets for a while. They might work pretty good for the shoulder season too, where you don't need much of a fire, but something to take the chill off, should be easy to regulate how many pellets you are going to burn with those logs.

I envy pellets for the ease of handling and clean burn they give, and have wanted to come up with a good way of burning them. But I keep coming back to the fact that I have all the dead wood I need on the farm, but no pellet mill, so I will stick with what I have. If I were having to buy fuel anyway, it's hard to beat propane and electricity for ease of handling and heat control.

I am however eying those pellet log cages for use in my smoker. I think I have a use for them there, if I can control the burn rate.

 

[mass_burner]

I wouldn't go to the trouble of modifying my stove, but that's just me. I have a smoker also and it was part of the appeal. BTW, these cages cool down to room temp in literally 30 seconds. I owe you guys another test with a 3 log load but it been really warm lately. Going to Martha's vineyard today without a coat!

 

[woodgeek]

If you want to burn pellets in a stove, try the basket....

http://www.thepelleteer.com/

 

[mass_burner]

pellet cages in the fireplace. I first used all 4 and the flames were quite high. there was about a 2" high rolling smoke layer above the cages and the flames came from those. see pics, the rolling smoke didn't come out so well. in an open FP the logs burnt out really quickly. less than an hour. It was better when I used two logs at a time, but still the long skinny flames lept from the log. This is a large FP with excellent draw in this FP, so maybe thats it. So far the best use for me is the wood stove, havn't tried to cook with it yet.

threw in a couple pics of Nantucket sound on the way to MVY, and this huge pagoda tree in egdartown,ma. these were originally brought from china

 

[mass_burner]

Ok, so I finally got a chance to test all four cages at once in my larger stove. For the first
1/2 hour it puts up long thin flames straight up onto the burn tubes which heat up the stove nicely.
At about 1 hour, it started this rolling waves of flame (see pic 3) this went on for about 1 hour or so.
This was mesmorizing, I couldn't stop looking at it. A good show.
Keep in mind that throughtout the whole burn, except for the first 15 minutes, I had the air lever
all the way closed. After that it started the die down process but all four cages still contained red hot
cores. Lat checked it at 11:30, probably continued the burn out process for maybe a hour after that, but
with considerably less heat output.
I was relieved to see that the flaming from all four cages could be contained using air control.
Also, there was a significant amount of blue flaming.
So a 4 hour burn is not ideal for all situations. But for shoulder seasons or when you want a fire
for the rest of the night till bed time, its a good option. It was also fairly hands-off. Wide open for
the first 10-15 minutes, then closed all the way, before going bed I opened half-way.

7:30 PM - Lit 'er up. pic 6
8:00 PM - 212d picture 5
9:00 PM - 487d pic 3 -5
10:30 PM - 452d pic 1
11:30 PM - 200d

 

[mass_burner]

Okay, still refining my pellet cage use in the inserts. I've been experimenting with mixed loads. I put the largest cage in the back and stack 2 large splits on top and in front if it. That only leaves about 3 inches space from the top plate. Burn is much more controlled this way. For the first 2 hours most of what's burning is the gasses off the pellets and splits. Air turned way down practically from the very start. No chance if splits not taking off with the cage fire under them.

 

[mass_burner]

Oh yea, I've since bought 4 more large cages at 10 each. I timed their cooling time, from the hot fire to room temp, under 15 seconds. On this last test I used 2 loads with 2 splits each and 1 cage. Combined burn duration was from 6 pm till 2am, 72 room temp.

 

[bag of hammers]

This is kinda interesting - thanks for the updates. Wish I had the time to experiment more with this stuff (still have the paper log roller thing on the to-do list based on a couple threads started here by others who were making them, way back...)

 

[2stoveshome]

Couple weeks ago, I wrote an e-mail to the address list on the website and asking why wood stove is not listed as a proper way to use the cage. They told me the cage is intended for outdoor use. If reloaded is needed, it could be safety concerns when small pieces of hot coal fell off and the cage could be really hot too. I gave up the idea of using wood pellets other than shoulder season in the pellets basket. I don't have much outdoor place to store cord wood either, I now use bio brick instead.

 

[mass_burner]

Couple weeks ago, I wrote an e-mail to the address list on the website and asking why wood stove is not listed as a proper way to use the cage. They told me the cage is intended for outdoor use. If reloaded is needed, it could be safety concerns when small pieces of hot coal fell off and the cage could be really hot too. I gave up the idea of using wood pellets other than shoulder season in the pellets basket. I don't have much outdoor place to store cord wood either, I now use bio brick instead.

I am taking a trip to the hardware store tonight to see how I can fashion an extractor. When retrieved, there is only a small handful of red hot pellet stubs left in the cage that fall easily through the basket when shaken a little. What I've done so far as a test was to pull one end of the basket toward the door, lift it onto the door frame, the hot stubs fall to other end, then I give it a little shake and when its empty, pull it out, wearing a glove of course. By the time I pull off my glove, the cage is room temp. Having an extractor will help if I'm pulling a cage out from under coals and not needing to put my arm in the stove. After a few runs with splits, I like it much better. Burn is more controlled and even with the same amount of heat than with just using cages alone.

 

[woodgeek]

I am seriously looking at the pelleteer basket. My old POS stove is a pre-EPA, coal burner, very wide and not very tall. I don't burn enough to pay back a new stove. In a dense area, I want to keep emissions down. I want to burn recreationally, and as a backup, and like the 'reproducibility' of biomass bricks, but the local price in small quantities is v expensive. Looks like I can get pellets at a fair priceby the bag. The pellet BTUs would still cost more than my HP, but still less than my aux backup.

I know BB has used the pelleteer, and didn't like refills. Any other users out there want to talk me out of it??

 

[2stoveshome]

I am seriously looking at the pelleteer basket. My old POS stove is a pre-EPA, coal burner, very wide and not very tall. I don't burn enough to pay back a new stove. In a dense area, I want to keep emissions down. I want to burn recreationally, and as a backup, and like the 'reproducibility' of biomass bricks, but the local price in small quantities is v expensive. Looks like I can get pellets at a fair priceby the bag. The pellet BTUs would still cost more than my HP, but still less than my aux backup.

I know BB has used the pelleteer, and didn't like refills. Any other users out there want to talk me out of it??

I also own a pelleteer which I originally bought for my Russo C-55 coal/wood stove in the basement. The openning is not very tall either. I used it in the shoulder season with my Jotul c450 insert too. If I use pelleteer in my Jotul c450 insert, it will take about an hour for the fan to start from lighting up the gel starter. If you just need an hour or two burning time(maybe three at most), it is not too bad. It also depends on how you light it up too. Their website recommends gel starter. But you do need lots of gel every time to get it going....Refill is tricky. Smoke gets in the room easily. I was thinking building something like french fries loader in McDonald.....Hope this information helps.

 

[woodgeek]

That is helpful. The burntime is about what I get now with biomass bricks. I would do a lot of single burns, so refill is not a huge concern. I was thinking of getting a small coal scuttle, filling it with the right amount of pellets, and then pouring it in with the scuttle to refill, rather than using a scoop.

My stove has a flue draw at the front that opens when the door opens, to minimize smoke spillage. Might help?

Did you have a sense that the burn was pretty clean?

 

[2stoveshome]

I am taking a trip to the hardware store tonight to see how I can fashion an extractor. When retrieved, there is only a small handful of red hot pellet stubs left in the cage that fall easily through the basket when shaken a little. What I've done so far as a test was to pull one end of the basket toward the door, lift it onto the door frame, the hot stubs fall to other end, then I give it a little shake and when its empty, pull it out, wearing a glove of course. By the time I pull off my glove, the cage is room temp. Having an extractor will help if I'm pulling a cage out from under coals and not needing to put my arm in the stove. After a few runs with splits, I like it much better. Burn is more controlled and even with the same amount of heat than with just using cages alone.

I am taking a trip to the hardware store tonight to see how I can fashion an extractor. When retrieved, there is only a small handful of red hot pellet stubs left in the cage that fall easily through the basket when shaken a little. What I've done so far as a test was to pull one end of the basket toward the door, lift it onto the door frame, the hot stubs fall to other end, then I give it a little shake and when its empty, pull it out, wearing a glove of course. By the time I pull off my glove, the cage is room temp. Having an extractor will help if I'm pulling a cage out from under coals and not needing to put my arm in the stove. After a few runs with splits, I like it much better. Burn is more controlled and even with the same amount of heat than with just using cages alone.

I am taking a trip to the hardware store tonight to see how I can fashion an extractor. When retrieved, there is only a small handful of red hot pellet stubs left in the cage that fall easily through the basket when shaken a little. What I've done so far as a test was to pull one end of the basket toward the door, lift it onto the door frame, the hot stubs fall to other end, then I give it a little shake and when its empty, pull it out, wearing a glove of course. By the time I pull off my glove, the cage is room temp. Having an extractor will help if I'm pulling a cage out from under coals and not needing to put my arm in the stove. After a few runs with splits, I like it much better. Burn is more controlled and even with the same amount of heat than with just using cages alone.

Finding a good extractor or extracting procedure will help. I may burn it with the bio bricks. Storing lots of fire wood is impossible in my small yard. Ordering 1/4 cord wood every time costs me more money than bio brick.

 

[2stoveshome]

That is helpful. The burntime is about what I get now with biomass bricks. I would do a lot of single burns, so refill is not a huge concern. I was thinking of getting a small coal scuttle, filling it with the right amount of pellets, and then pouring it in with the scuttle to refill, rather than using a scoop.

My stove has a flue draw at the front that opens when the door opens, to minimize smoke spillage. Might help?

maybe it will help depends on your draft....I always try it and I will know if my wife smell the smoke and yell. :-D

 

[mass_burner]

Finding a good extractor or extracting procedure will help. I may burn it with the bio bricks. Storing lots of fire wood is impossible in my small yard. Ordering 1/4 cord wood every time costs me more money than bio brick.

If I were you I'd be all over a pallet on Niels.

 

[mass_burner]

Hey, I want to say thanks for all the wood guys for tolerating this ongoing post. I know its not for everyone, but as the mantra seems to be around here: it depends of your home, burning habits, stove, budget-- one size does not fit all.

For me its all about flexibility, or having as many arrows in the quiver as possible: wood, NIELS, pellet cages, my mother-in-laws tacky wood coasters, whatever burns efficiently.

 

[mass_burner]

I also own a pelleteer... Their website recommends gel starter. But you do need lots of gel every time to get it going....Refill is tricky. Smoke gets in the room easily. I was thinking building something like french fries loader in McDonald.....Hope this information helps.

With the cages I use 1/8 of a SC, as with wood. Since all the sides of the cage are exposed, it takes off pretty quickly.

Burned again last night using cages. At 7:30, put 1 cage in rear of stove, 1 split on top of it, 1 split in front. Put a few chucks of SC in between the cage and the front split. Lit her up, air wide open, close the door. About 20 min in, shut the air almost fully closed. From there its all gases from the pellets burning, with smaller flames from the splits. This load lasted until 11:30, room was at 72. KEEP IN MIND ALSO THAT THESE SPLITS I'M BURNING ARE SPRUCE. At about 12:30, I raked all the coals off the cage to the front, replaced the 2 splits, again on top and in front. Surprisingly, about 1/3 of the cage was still filled with red hot pellets. After the splits were burning, returned to very low air. Went to bed. Was shocked to see the entire common area this morning at 7:30 was 68. Stove glass was still warm, no red hot coals, but I didn't sift through the ashes. Nothing left in the cages. I'm burning Fireside Ultra from HD.

So that's 4 spruce splits for a night of burning. It wasn't terribly cold last night, I think low of 30-32.

I think the cage would work well with 1-2 NIEL's, can't wait to get my hands on some.

 

[bag of hammers]

NIEL's

?

 

[mass_burner]

North Idaho Energy Logs

 

[2stoveshome]

If I were you I'd be all over a pallet on Niels.

Heard good thing about NEIL but it is just too expensive around here......$2.5 per log around here if you can find the guy who usually sell them by pallet. I even bought a 3 log pack in a store for $10....I must be crazy at the time to spend $10 for 3 logs.

 

[mass_burner]

Yea, I'm planning to drive out to Oxford MA to get about 10 to test out. If I like them I might get a pallet.

 

[weatherguy]

Heard good thing about NEIL but it is just too expensive around here......$2.5 per log around here if you can find the guy who usually sell them by pallet. I even bought a 3 log pack in a store for $10....I must be crazy at the time to spend $10 for 3 logs.

Your in mass?

(broken link removed)