Pellet stove in a Bi-Level

[arauch]

Hello, new to the forum and the pellet stove world. Figured I would ask you all about my current situation and if it will work:

My house is a bi level, with a 600 square foot basement and an 1100 square foot main level. the basement and garage are on the same level, and the main floor covers both of them. the bedrooms are above the garage, the kitchen/living room/dining room are all above the basement. the basement itself is fully drywalled and insulated, but no insulation in the ceiling (only the main floor beams).

My main issue with heating is that it's all electric, and the heat is actually in the ceiling on the main floor: Coils in the attic that radiate down. Blissfully inefficient. During winter it shoves my electric bill to $300 a month, which is insane. there are no ducts or vents anywhere in the house, so I figured a pellet stove would be my smartest option. there used to be a fireplace in the basement that was torn down and capped off, leaving a nice area that would house a pellet stove and vent straight up through the capped off spot.

the stove would be in the basement, almost directly pointed to the opening to the stairs across the room. I have a ceiling fan at the top of the stairs to circulate air. Will the stove be able to sufficiently heat the bedrooms in this setup? I would really prefer to keep the electric heat almost completely off this winter.

as far as venting goes, I should be able to rout the exhaust straight up and out, with no major issues. the air intake is a problem though. where the stove sits is concrete all the way up until the ceiling, so routing the fresh air inlet would be difficult. is there a downside from letting the air inlet take from the basement, or does it have to run outside?

The pellet stove I was able to get was a magnum 3500P. It was used but works perfectly, and I couldn't beat the price

Any insight would be very appreciated, Thank you!

 

[articcatbill]

I have a P68 Harman in our basement. We use it to heat the entire house, our house is a split level though, our basement is about 600 sq. feet.

As far as the install this is what I have:

We did a basement install to replace our wood stove, have had it two years we have been happy with it. It is in the unfinished part of our basement. Our house is a split level, so we have 4 levels, from the garage you go into the family room, above that are bedrooms. Down a 1/2 flight of steps to the lowest level (unfinished), above it are the kitchen, living room, dining room. We installed our pellet stove (Harman P68) in the lowest level to replace a wood stove that was already there. The unfinished basement is about 600 square feet, since it is a split level each of the 4 levels are about 600 square feet, totaling about 2400 square feet, we are heating it with the P68. So it is a smaller unfinished space than say if you had a ranch style home, that helps.

When I first started using it I was a bit disappointed in the heat circulation. The family room was great, but the kitchen, living room and dining room areas were cool. There were 2 4x12 vents in the floor in the dining room, with the wood stove under there the heat was so intense it drove the heat up those vents on it's own, not so with the pellet stove.

I bought 2 of these Tjerland RB12 fans(https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005FNL0SS/?tag=hearthamazon-20) register booster fans for the 4x12 registers. Wow what a difference, it certainly balanced everything out and now I am very happy with the set-up. The upstairs and family room are now consistent. The bedroom area is cool, but I like it that way.

I do realize I am burning pellets to heat an unfinished area (600 sq ft), we have the washer dryer down there, but there are some nice advantages of having it down there:

• Our floors upstairs are nice and warm, with much of the heat rising from the floors the rooms feel very cozy.
• I can store 4 tons of pellets down there. It takes my wife and I around 1/2 hour to carry a ton down there, then we are done with them other than dumping them in the stove. They are out of the way, the basement stays nice and dry.
• I don't have to fret about cleaning the stove and the dust. While I am getting better at not spreading dust, since it is an unfinished space, not really that big an issue.
• I makes a nice warm space to go read if you want to shake off the winter chill.

So as some people mentioned there are basement installs that work. I think for us the split level helps, the booster fans made a huge difference, and well the P68 can really crank out the heat when I need to warm-up the house. Our basement while unfinished and uninsulated, isn't that bad, it is a well sealed, not drafty, block wall basement. Decisions like this depend on the set-up and what you want out of the stove. We wanted nice warm floors, and to heat the entire house. So far I am now very happy with our set-up

We have electric baseboard heat, and rarely use it, on occasion for a quick heat up if the house has cooled down. 1/2 hour with the electric baseboard on can really heat up the house quickly with the pellet stove.

We did not install an OAK (Outdoor Air Kit) and have been fine without it. You will definitely hear different opinions on this topic! You can try without it and see what you think, you can always add one later. It will create negative pressure in your house.

As always with any solid fuel appliance be sure to install CO detectors at all levels of your home.

I do think that you will need to think about how to move your heat upstairs to balance everything. I found it easier to work on that once the stove was installed and running and I could see how it was doing on it's own.

 

[hockeypuck]

Couple of properly placed box fans on the floor do wonders. Not the prettiest and they could be an issue for the midnight bathroom run, but they work. Put a box fan on the hallway floor pushing the cold air to the stairs. I would not cut holes in your floor..not sure about local fire codes.

 

[StickPick73]

The winters where I live are pretty frigid here in northwest Wisconsin. We did a basement install of a pellet stove about three years ago to cut down on LP costs. We have a ranch style house with a mostly finished basement. Our stairs are opposite the stove as well. One thing I have found is that more of the pellet stove heat makes it's way upstairs when the temps of both floors are closer to being equal. If the upstairs is too cold, it essentially holds down all the heat in the basement. A $100 infrared box heater and the LP fireplace we have on the main level bring the temp up enough to get more of the balmy pellet heat on to the main level. I also use a small Honeywell fan on the floor aimed at the stove to help with air circulation/convection. In fact I've found using these small fans on the floor of any cold room to be quite helpful - pointing them out of the doorway of the cold room to circulate warm air into the room. Here's the fans I use... Honeywell HT-900 TurboForce Air Circulator Fan Black https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001R1RXUG/?tag=hearthamazon-20 Hope this helps!

 

[Battleman13]

So what is your electric bill without the cost of using it for heat? For example, mine averages around $150 a month. I feel that is kinda high, but I do have electric hot water and run an air conditioner plus swimming pool pump in the summer.

So for example, if electric heat cost me an additional $150 to bring my heat cost to $300 total... then you might be disappointed with the pellet stove. Around here, a ton of pellets costs anywhere from $200-$225 on average. If your running it to heat your entire home, you are probably going to burn a bag a day or more. In a months time, you'll likely use more than $150 worth of pellets which makes the change actually cost you more money than using electric.

If running the electric heat costs you an extra $300 on top of the normal bill... then there might be some savings to be had, but it won't be earth shattering. Your still likely to burn in excess of $150 a month on pellets and in the really cold months probably closer to $200 +


That and what others have said, you need to find a way to circulate the heat nicely. Otherwise you end up with a roasty toasty basement and an upper level that's chilly.

 

[arauch]

Thanks everyone for all of the replays, I think I'll try installing it without an OAK and wire in a remote thermostat, that way the unit I have will stay on low fire until additional heat is needed. If I need one I can install the outside air kit later.
I only have a swamp cooler for the summer months, then all the appliances are electric. This summer my electric bill has hit an average of only $50 or so, so I figured a pellet stove might save some money for the winter months. The temperature is already dropping here in wyoming so I'll find out pretty soon!

 

[burnermike]

From your dimensions I think I might have an identical house. We’re also getting a pellet stove to offset electric heat. I’m installing with an oak, putting it in the living room opposite of the bedrooms at the other end. I hear oaks give better efficiency, and it means I can terminate the vent closer to a window. If it can keep the downstairs from freezing it will be a bonus. Ours comes in another week or two.

Keep us updated.

 

[arauch]

Just a quick update, I was able to install my stove last weekend, just in time for the nights to drop below 40 degrees. I haven't installed the thermostat yet, still working on the logistics of where to put it upstairs (might have to rout the wires through the attic), so just manually setting it for now.

So far, so good:
I haven't had to use it full time until recently, and have to say I am pleased with the current results. Even though the temperature has only dropped to 35 degrees so far, I am optimistic. I leave my fan on above the stairs to pull heat up from the basement, and right now have a single box fan to push air towards the bedrooms (low tech I know, but it will do for now). The bedrooms are staying at 60+ degrees during the night, with the basement only 10 degrees or so hotter. Pellet use has only been 1/2 to 3/4 of a bag a day, which I'm sure will increase as the temperature drops. all of my electric heat is turned off, with only the stove heating the house.

Pellets used so far:
the first bag or two of pellets I used were from my local Menards, Big heat wood pellets. I only bought 5 bags, just to try them out. They must not have stored them very well, first bag I opened was very damp and 50% all sawdust. ended up shoveling them out of my stove after the second time the fire died. Not sure if this is a problem with the store or the pellets themselves, either way not going back to them.
A local business sells Purcell pellets, so I decided to give them a try. At $4.99 a bag, it's one of the lower prices in town. Clear bags, which showed that there was almost zero dust in them. so far they are working amazingly, low ash and good heat.


This weekend is supposed to be our first snow of the year, with the highest temperature being 34 degrees, dropping to the teens at night. hopefully i can get my thermostat installed soon, so I can get precise control over the heat. I will keep you all updated on how it goes!

 

[sweaty]

...

When I first started using it I was a bit disappointed in the heat circulation. The family room was great, but the kitchen, living room and dining room areas were cool. There were 2 4x12 vents in the floor in the dining room, with the wood stove under there the heat was so intense it drove the heat up those vents on it's own, not so with the pellet stove.

I bought 2 of these Tjerland RB12 fans(Amazon product ASIN B005FNL0SS) register booster fans for the 4x12 registers. Wow what a difference, it certainly balanced everything out and now I am very happy with the set-up. The upstairs and family room are now consistent. The bedroom area is cool, but I like it that way.
...

This is interesting. I am not sure I understand why the register fans can be helpful in this case. You said the registers are already there in the floor as a part of the existing HVAC system. The pellet stove sits under the ducts. Are you saying that the heat is pulled to the upstairs by the booster fans simply because the pellet stove heats up the ducts? I imagine the ducts must be enclosed between the floors by drywall ceiling?

The reason I ask is the location of my stove is in the basement and I have a nice living room right above it on the second floor. The upstairs living room and basement room are both finished and share the same main HVAC duct. So I am looking a way to get some heat from the basement stove to this living room, which is right above it.

I am trying to avoid cutting the floor and install vent there--might be against code anyway.

 

[articcatbill]

This is interesting. I am not sure I understand why the register fans can be helpful in this case. You said the registers are already there in the floor as a part of the existing HVAC system. The pellet stove sits under the ducts. Are you saying that the heat is pulled to the upstairs by the booster fans simply because the pellet stove heats up the ducts? I imagine the ducts must be enclosed between the floors by drywall ceiling?

The reason I ask is the location of my stove is in the basement and I have a nice living room right above it on the second floor. The upstairs living room and basement room are both finished and share the same main HVAC duct. So I am looking a way to get some heat from the basement stove to this living room, which is right above it.

I am trying to avoid cutting the floor and install vent there--might be against code anyway.

The registers are not a part of the HVAC system. They are simply holes cut in the floor, they were in the house previously because there was a wood stove in the same location where we installed the pellet stove. The wood stove was hot enough that it would drive the heat up through the open vents in the floor. The pellet stove was not really hot enough to just force the heat through the vents, which is why I installed the register fans to help move the heat. They are actually designed for use in HVAC systems, but fit and worked perfect in the open vents that were cut in our floor. I hope that helps to explain our set-up. Don't hesitate to ask any other questions.

 

[sweaty]

The registers are not a part of the HVAC system. They are simply holes cut in the floor,...

That makes sense now. I don't have these registers already in place. I am not sure if the code allows it if I cut the floor and install those myself. Probably not.

What does it look like from the ceiling downstairs? Are they the same size 4x12 opening or a larger size--a larger size on the ceiling would make sense to gather the heat more efficiently. I also imagine there has to be some kind of duct connecting the ceiling opening/registers with the floor registers. I mean, it can't just be the floor joist in between, right?

Once I go this way, there is no turning back. I mean I will cut the nice hardwood floor and put holes in the ceiling. So better make sure this has a better chance of being successful.

 

[articcatbill]

Our basement underneath is the lowest of the 4 levels and it is not finished. There is a drop ceiling down there but the tiles are removed above the pellet stove. Since it isn't a finished space it really doesn't matter, it is dry we store our pellets down there as well our washer dryer is down there. I attached a picture from the basement and from our living room to give you an idea of what it looks like.

 

[sweaty]

Thank you so much! That explains a lot!

I am doing more research and I think the next thing is to talk to my local fire department to see if code allows this. It sounds like in my case(ranch, with a walkout basement) the code might allow it.

As far as the floor registers are concerned, since I have a finished basement with drywall ceiling, I will have to make some kind of duct/enclosure between the floor joists and make it look nice.

Thanks again for the pictures. They are really helpful!

 

[articcatbill]

Thank you so much! That explains a lot!

I am doing more research and I think the next thing is to talk to my local fire department to see if code allows this. It sounds like in my case(ranch, with a walkout basement) the code might allow it.

As far as the floor registers are concerned, since I have a finished basement with drywall ceiling, I will have to make some kind of duct/enclosure between the floor joists and make it look nice.

Thanks again for the pictures. They are really helpful!

Yes take your time and look into it first, what works in one home might not work in another. So I agree you want to be sure your plan before getting started.

If you go this route you will need to have 110 to power the vent registers, I would suggest putting that on a switch so you can turn it off when you are not running your pellet stove. I have mine plugged in the basement so I just unplug them when I turn off the stove. If I was doing it in a finished basement I would hardwire them into a switched circuit so I could just easily turn them off when I wasn't running the pellet stove.

I used the these since they fit my 4x12 floor openings, but there might be other approaches that would work better for you to move the heat up. I know I came across other approaches out here as well to move the heat between floors.