Pellets in a Garn?

[Deering]

Hi All:

I'm seriously thinking about installing a Garn to integrate with my oil-fired hot water baseboard system here in Juneau, Alaska. On increasing occasions (such as the past few days), we are subject to burn bans due to noncompliance with air quality standards. The bans occur when we have temperature inversions, which unfortunately are the coldest days around here. Maybe 3-4 weeks out of the winter.

However, pellet stoves are exempt from the ban. So my thinking is that during the ban events I'll switch over to pellets - keep a stock of pellets onhand just for those events, and then switch back to cordwood when it's over. From the Garn photos and videos that I've examined I can't see any reason why this wouldn't work.

Any experience or thoughts from the Garn gurus here? Thanks in advance.

 

[Jim K in PA]

Welcome to the Boiler Room, Deering.

I am not sure how pellets actually COULD work in a GARN. The large firebox has no means to feed in pellets gradually, so you would have to have a large pile of them in there in order to make any heat. I confess to having no experience with regular pellet stoves, so experts in them are welcome to explain how they could be used. FWIW, pellets are not an approved fuel according to Dectra (the manufacturer).

Rather than trying to beat the restriction by using pellets, why not present the GARN to the zoning board (or whomever is the entity that enforces the restriction) for what it is, a high efficiency, clean(er) burning appliance that will not be filling the sky with smoke like an older wood stove or traditional OWB. Once started, the GARN does NOT smoke at all when operated correctly. Perhaps you can get a variance to continue burning good, dry cord wood during those restrictive periods.

 

[pybyr]

not that I'd ever recommend or do such a thing, but a Garn's exhaust is so smoke free after start-up that a scofflaw could start a burn after dark

and/ or, in a slightly more law abiding mode, might you get BioBricks recognized as large pellets in a high efficiency, low emission appliance like a Garn or gasifier?

 

[Sting]

if your going that far to keep a fire

Install a back up boiler made to burn pellets -- like a Traeger or a Harmon

 

[EricV]

I bet oil is cheaper than pellets.

 

[Deering]

I was thinking that I'd just pour a bag of the pellets into the burn chamber and burn them like firewood. Yes...it seems like a ridiculous way to circumvent the regs, but... I've also thought about the after-dark burning, but being a scrupulous sort I would never publicly post such a suggestion...in writing. The biobricks option sounds even better, but not sure if I have a source up here, nor whether it would meet the standards.

Has anyone successfully petitioned the powers-that-be to allow gassifier stoves to burn during burn restrictions? I know the Garn (and other gassifiers) burn cleanly, but what independent testing can I point to to make my case with the regulators?

 

[Deering]

EricV, I'm not sure if oil would be cheaper than pellets. Here in SE Alaska we really take a pounding on oil. Last refueling was $4.60 a gallon. You'd think that we'd get a break here since we ship out supertankers of the stuff...but Alaska has the highest gas prices in the nation, even though we have the lowest gas taxes. But that's a good point, and I'll have to crank the numbers.

 

[EricV]

Wow, that's high. Do they make pellets there or are the shipping up as well?

In northern NY we are at $2.29/ gallon

here is a good site to look at the numbers

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/fuel_cost_comparison_calculator/

 

[Deering]

Wow! That is one handy calculator! When it estimates a cost per year, any idea what the basis for that cost is? Sq ft of building, heating degree days...

Currently pellets are being barged up from Lower 48 (I'll have to research prices), but it sounds like a pellet mill will be going in soon in the region, so perhaps bulk pellets will be available. I can get wood for free - I snag drifting logs out of the river behind my house...if you call sweat 'free'.

 

[flyingcow]

not that I'd ever recommend or do such a thing, but a Garn's exhaust is so smoke free after start-up that a scofflaw could start a burn after dark

and/ or, in a slightly more law abiding mode, might you get BioBricks recognized as large pellets in a high efficiency, low emission appliance like a Garn or gasifier?

This to me makes the most sense. i won't tell anyone. :coolsmile: seriously, a code officer might be riding around, but he'll be smelling his way around. I'm sure a neighbor will be trying the same thing with a wood stove or OWB. It's night, what can he see?

 

[pybyr]

... being a scrupulous sort I would never publicly post such a suggestion...in writing. The biobricks option sounds even better, but not sure if I have a source up here, nor whether it would meet the standards.

I'm generally pretty scrupulous. I wasn't suggesting it, or condoning it, just noting it.

What I really think would make sense would be to get a "code exception" for gasifiers/ high efficiency units like the Garn, Tarms, EKOS, Econoburns, etc.

Unlike my woodstove, or my prior wood/ hot air furnace, all of which emitted visible smoke to one degree or another, once my Econoburn is up to gasifying (which I can now do in well under 10 minutes, usually under 5) there's less visible "stuff" coming out the chimney than even back when my oil furnace (pretty modern/ relatively efficient) was running (which it has not done since I finished installing my Econoburn in mid-January 2009). It's amazing how, at most, I simply see steam, and not even a huge amount of that.

 

[pybyr]

- I snag drifting logs out of the river behind my house...if you call sweat 'free'.

Aren't those actually large pellets ? (just teasing)

 

[EricV]

- I snag drifting logs out of the river behind my house...if you call sweat 'free'.

Aren't those actually large pellets ? (just teasing)

pre-processed pellets

 

[EricV]

Wow! That is one handy calculator! When it estimates a cost per year, any idea what the basis for that cost is? Sq ft of building, heating degree days...

Currently pellets are being barged up from Lower 48 (I'll have to research prices), but it sounds like a pellet mill will be going in soon in the region, so perhaps bulk pellets will be available. I can get wood for free - I snag drifting logs out of the river behind my house...if you call sweat 'free'.

No idea. I think it's just a picture so people can estimate their own usage and compare it to other fuels.

 

[Sting]

From what I know of life in AK

Its terribly unwise to even turn around in an unfamiliar driveway -- you might find a hi powered bullet in the cab before you get back on the road!

So who would know? Most won't get close enough to diagnose and who can tell the difference of pellets burning or good dry wood???



Or maybe you live in town -- keep some bags of pellets around and in in plain site Keep a pellet stove running too! How about a pellet grill and do a little cooking for fun!

 

[Deering]

From what I know of life in AK

Its terribly unwise to even turn around in an unfamiliar driveway -- you might find a hi powered bullet in the cab before you get back on the road!

So who would know? Most won't get close enough to diagnose and who can tell the difference of pellets burning or good dry wood???



Or maybe you live in town -- keep some bags of pellets around and in in plain site Keep a pellet stove running too! How about a pellet grill and do a little cooking for fun!

You're thinking of Wasilla perhaps, Sting. Here in SE Alaska we're a little gentler. Bordering on civilized. That's probably due to the strong Midwestern influence of polite people who migrated here. Like me...born in Milwaukee, raised in Wisconsin Rapids.

But I went back and read the city ordinance in detail - my loopholes closed on me. The 'solid fuel burning device must be designed to exclusively burn pellets no more than 1" in diameter'. Kinda shoots down biobricks too.

We do have relatively cheap electrical here (hydropower - when avalanches aren't taking out our powerlines), so maybe I'll install the electrical backup option.

 

[pybyr]

People tend to assume that ordinances are engraved in stone, but in actuality, a core group of motivated and informed people can sometimes get them changed, or at least modified to recognize factors that may not have been considered by the folks who originally drafted and enacted the ordinance.

Perhaps see if you can get the ordinance changed to allow people to "register" certain high-efficiency/ low emission biomass combustion appliances, which could then be exempt from the periodic ban?

You'd also have to look into whether the requirement for the ordinance has been imposed upon the Town by the State and/ or federal governments as a result of some air quality standard non-attainment issue, in which case you'd also probably have to win over some other officials.

But it rarely hurts to investigate what was the genesis of an ordinance, and whether it can be refined, and how to go about it.

Either that or find a way to process all your wood into 1" diameter

 

[rowerwet]

If you want to burn pellets in a fire place or wood stove get a pellet basket to hold them and allow a complete burn. I would think someone would advertise them on this site, not sure, I found out about them on the forestry forum in alternative ways (or something like that) section. Imagine a basket kind of like you would use to put french fries in a fryer at Mcdonalds. ( I put in tons of fries in my years there) I don't know how the burn is as far as smoke, these are more aimed at fireplace useres.

 

[jklingel]

Rower: Nice looking canoe. You make it?

 

[j00fek]

tarm makes a pellet boiler, i have been doing alot of research on it. i would go for it but im not able to buy a house till next yr...

 

[Hansson]

Maby a simple pelletburner wold fitt in the garn.
Like this one.
(broken link removed to http://translate.google.se/translate?prev=_t&hl=sv&ie=UTF-8&u=http://www.baxi.se/visa_produkt.asp?produktid=160&Kategori=30&Produkttyp=3&sl=sv&tl=en&history;_state0=)

 

[rowerwet]

Rower: Nice looking canoe. You make it?

unfortunately no, it is my dream boat (adirondack guide boat) I got the picture from the website of the shop where I would love to buy one. ( anyone have $5k they care to donate to the cause?) I build cheap plywood boats with painted (workboat) finishes.

 

[Jim K in PA]

Maby a simple pelletburner wold fitt in the garn.
Like this one.
(broken link removed to http://translate.google.se/translate?prev=_t&hl=sv&ie=UTF-8&u=http://www.baxi.se/visa_produkt.asp?produktid=160&Kategori=30&Produkttyp=3&sl=sv&tl=en&history;_state0=)

Hansson - that is a very interesting unit. I am interested in getting that site translated and learning more. Do you know much about it?

 

[Hansson]

Maby a simple pelletburner wold fitt in the garn.
Like this one.
(broken link removed to http://translate.google.se/translate?prev=_t&hl=sv&ie=UTF-8&u=http://www.baxi.se/visa_produkt.asp?produktid=160&Kategori=30&Produkttyp=3&sl=sv&tl=en&history;_state0=)

Hansson - that is a very interesting unit. I am interested in getting that site translated and learning more. Do you know much about it?

It`s usaual here to convert old oil boilers to pellets boilers whit this typ of units.
it`s hard to find good info in english.
Here is an other big name over here
http://www.pellx.com/engelska/burners.htm