Ping WoodGeek, need general Nissan LEAF info

[CaptSpiff]

Sorry for the rude way to reach out, but figured others may be interested:

Can you give me some general update & performance numbers on "life with your Leaf"?

I looked at a used Leaf last weekend, drove it and liked it. But the owner seemed totally clueless about the tech.

What are you getting for mileage/range on your used batteries, still showing over 70?
What is the KwHrs/Mile, and what else do I need to think about as a looooooong time ICE owner?

I have a 22 mile one way commute, and the company is starting to install some "free" charging stations.

Thanks.

 

[woodgeek]

We got a model year 2013 LEAF S (the cheapest model) with a 24 kWh battery in May 2014. A 3 year lease with 12,000 miles/year rate.

Its my wife's daily driver, she commutes to work 17 miles from home, and 17 miles back. This is hilly back roads, prob 45-50 mph average, with stops every mile or two.

Our long term (seasonal) average eff is 3.6 miles/kWh. This is about 86 miles to empty (0% state of charge, SOC), but we seldom want to drop the SOC below 15%, so its more like 70 miles usable to 20% SOC. The meter shows 86± in the summer when 100%SOC.

I suspect she is getting 4 mi/kWh in the warm weather, and 3 mi/kWh when it is close to or below freezing with snow tires on. So, maybe 80 usable miles in warm weather, 55-60 miles in the dead of winter. She/we are sparing with the cabin heater in winter...just enough heat (60° and low fan setting) to keep the windshield clear, and use of heated seat and steering wheel.

She LOVES the car. It is quieter than most luxury cars, so she listens to audio-books on her commute, and can really enjoy them. Driving as a family, I think we can all talk in a normal inside voice, instead of yelling at each other. Surprisingly relaxing and pleasant.

It is a great winter car...starts right up, no slow grind below freezing and worrying if the old bird will turn over. Press a button, it sings to you and you are off. The electric heat (and heated seats and steering) are fast to heat up. Wth snows the handling in excellent on ice/snow and can climb our steep driveway much better than other 2WD sedans with all-seasons.

The car is deemed slow on a 0-60 basis (like 9 seconds I think) but feels sportier than any ICE car I have driven (mostly toyotas), because it has a respectable 0-30 time (I think <3 seconds), lots of low end torque, and the power is instant (no throttle lag) and silent. I drive the thing pretty sporty and have a lot of fun with it. You can test drive and see what it can do.

We have seen NO change in battery capacity or range in 26000 miles and 3.2 years of driving. WE might be down a few percent and not have noticed. The car lives in our tuck-under garage, which is 50°F in the winter, and maybe 75°F in the summer, so the battery temps are pretty well controlled.

WE installed a 30A, 240V L2 charger in the garage, b/c I wanter her to be able to get back to full charge shortly after she got home, in case she wanted to go out for errands, to drive into town, etc. $700 for DIY install. She plugs in when she gets home from her 35 mile commute, and is at 100% SOC in 90 minutes.

We like it so much, we want another, but are holding out for the longer-range, restyled MY 2018 LEAF. We extended our lease for a fourth year (discounted) to get there.

You prob know the battery chem was changed in early 2013...and the earlier ones sucked in terms of durability. We got a good one (late 2013). There was also a recall on the 2013s related to the AC system leaking....our indeed lost all its refrigerant in 8 mos and was fixed under warranty.

Budget for tires....my ecopias are almost shot at 18,000 miles (the other miles are on my xi3 snows).

Pro tip: You get 5-10% more range (and even wear) by keeping the tires >40 psi rather than the 36 psi on the door label. The tires are rated for 44 and the car is HEAVY.

 

[CaptSpiff]

Thanks WoodGeek, Great reply.

No I did not know about the 2013 mid-year battery improvement. It was a 2013 I was checking out. That's the type of detail I'm usually up on, so I guess I got a learning curve to climb! The car drove great and the ask was under $10K. Don't even know if that's good, but it don't cost to kick the tires.

The EV scene has been a low priority for me to date. It was always something I'd do after I got the net metered PV on the roof. Now that my company is installing a row of chargers in the employee lot, I'm interested.

My commute is about a gallon each way, so I'm in for about $5/day commuting fuel.The info of 3 to 4 mi/kWh is exactly what I was looking for. Taxes and all brings our electric rates to about 0.21 $/kWh. At your 3.5 mi/kWh, the same 44 mile round trip commute would be about 13 kwh, or $2.73 RT. Or even free if their charging stations work out.

Based on your description of the 2018 model improvements it may be wise to go slow. But I think one of my next stops will be the dealer anyway just to test the new car smell.

I found a few of your prior post which were helpful as well. Again, thanks.

 

[woodgeek]

Talking to some dealers is not a bad idea. I have found some dealers are NOT interested in selling them, and offer lousy terms, and others are moving them out the door with great deals.

Keep in mind that although leasing is generally a bad idea for cars, for EVs it can make sense relative to buying used. The $7500 fed credit gets applied to the lease calc on a new car, along with whatever, often very generous discounts Nissan applies. The monthly nut is often similar to a 3 year payment on a used LEAF!

And the 2017s have 25% bigger batteries and higher range than the 2015 and earlier.

Supposedly the production lines for the 2017 MY LEAFs are all shut down globally, and retooling for the redesigned MY 2018s. So, they have already made the last 'classic LEAF', I think Nissan made about 250,000 of them total since 2010. About half of those are in the US, and half of those are in California.

I think current inventory on the 2017s is very low (since they didn't want to get stuck with them when the new hotness comes out), but they may be incentivizing leases of new 2017s from now and up to the 2018 announcement in September. I would guess that they will want all old LEAFs off the lots by then.

I was shopping for a 2016 LEAF last fall, and there were some amazing deals...and then they were all gone. I might have gotten one, but my wife's favorite colors were already gone when we started looking. My rather shrewd neighbor got a mid-level trim 2016 LEAF for about $208/mo with very little down. He has a Tesla Model 3 res, which he expects to come up towards the end of his lease in 2019.

 

[Brian26]

I just got this email from the CT green bank who paid the incentives for my solar panels. Looks like they are offering incredible deals on the new leaf here in CT.

 

[woodgeek]

Meh. That's the old, 30 kWh LEAF, not the new MY2018 LEAF. I wonder if the incentive can be turned into a lease deal....?

2018 MY announcement is set for Sept 6th, 2017:

http://insideevs.com/2018-nissan-leaf-spyshots-interior-exterior/

I expect that the old units will all be sold/leased by August.

 

[begreen]

At that price even the old tech looks attractive.

 

[spirilis]

$10K Nissan purchase incentive? Huh, wonder if that's a regional thing... last I heard in my area (MD) Nissan was offering $4K (and 0% up to 72mo financing) but Constellation Energy was offering $10K (however you have to switch to them, which I have no intention of doing).

The Leaf is already looking attractive for me with the older 30kWh tech, but we're trying to squeeze every last mile out of the Subaru. Been trying to convince my wife for a month now...