Please help: Sopka/Tim Sistem North (and sheet metal cook stoves in general)

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CedarPost

Member
Jun 26, 2020
15
Vermont
Hi, I'm looking to get my first wood cook stove. I have a small space and the Sopka North (also called the Tim Sistem North) will fit in the kitchen, due to its 6" clearances to combustibles. Also, it fits my small budget. If I go with a different stove, it would likely have to be used.

I can find relatively little about it online, except on the websites of places that sell it. Does anybody have experience with it? Not just occasional use, but day in, day out cooking use. I was able to see one in person in a store nearby. It looks fine. Clearly handmade, as there is some evidence of inconsistent bevels on metal plates, etc, but materials seemed solid.

My main questions are:
- Is this particular stove good? i.e. easy to use, good burn time, quick to heat up, good quality, etc.
- How do sheet metal stoves compare to cast iron? I have a good friend who has cooked exclusively on wood for over 20 years, but she has a cast iron stove and was concerned that it would be a pain to constantly restart the fire if the sheet metal cooled down quickly. There is a tempered glass cook top available for it, which would cut down on how long it takes to heat up, so maybe comparing it to a cast iron stove is apples to oranges.

Any advice or thoughts are welcome. Thanks.
 
Calling @SpaceBus to the front desk.

This thread will get you started.
 
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Hi, I'm looking to get my first wood cook stove. I have a small space and the Sopka North (also called the Tim Sistem North) will fit in the kitchen, due to its 6" clearances to combustibles. Also, it fits my small budget. If I go with a different stove, it would likely have to be used.

I can find relatively little about it online, except on the websites of places that sell it. Does anybody have experience with it? Not just occasional use, but day in, day out cooking use. I was able to see one in person in a store nearby. It looks fine. Clearly handmade, as there is some evidence of inconsistent bevels on metal plates, etc, but materials seemed solid.

My main questions are:
- Is this particular stove good? i.e. easy to use, good burn time, quick to heat up, good quality, etc.
- How do sheet metal stoves compare to cast iron? I have a good friend who has cooked exclusively on wood for over 20 years, but she has a cast iron stove and was concerned that it would be a pain to constantly restart the fire if the sheet metal cooled down quickly. There is a tempered glass cook top available for it, which would cut down on how long it takes to heat up, so maybe comparing it to a cast iron stove is apples to oranges.

Any advice or thoughts are welcome. Thanks.


How well insulated is your house? I have a North with the firebox on the right hand side (left hand flue) that is connected to my domestic hot water system. It's not my only stove, but I do burn it frequently and late into the spring and early in fall. It only goes cold for two or three months of the year.

I have the steel and glass top, and I love the glass top.

Our "primary" heat woodstove is a free standing cast iron stove, and I wouldn't want cast iron for a cookstove. Maybe it works if it is your only stove, but then you have to oversize the cooker and then it's not as useable in milder weather. This stove lights up very easily, but will work best with an interior flue. Our house is very tight and our chimney is exterior, so I have to crack a window on cold lights.

My stove has only 2" of clearance from my counter on the left hand side, but that is only allowed with proper shielding per the manual. The right side is approximately 6" from our electric range oven, and it still gets fairly hot. I'm not sure if I would put anything combustible that close to the firebox side of this stove. Maybe it would be OK with shielding, but it's hard to say.

I have a lot to share about this stove after over two years of almost constant use, but I'm trying not to overwhelm you. I was in your shoes when I ordered the stove summer 2019. I absolutely love this thing and wouldn't trade it for anything.


You will 100% want a professional grade ash vacuum if you buy any cookstove. I can't imagine cleaning the inside of this thing without one.
 
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@SpaceBus thanks for your reply. I went back and read your original thread (linked above) about your install and initial thoughts. Seems like a pretty good little stove!

I would love to hear any more of your experiences that you'd like to share, plus it would be great to have another updated thread about this on the forum in case anybody else is in my shoes. Have you figured out a smoke-free start without the small butane torch?

I would prefer the glass top, but will likely have to top vent given my tight space, so not sure if that will work.

My house is very small (~600 sq ft), but not very well insulated. Additionally, there is an above-grade plumbed crawlspace that I hope can be heated just with spillover from the living space. I will be doing some air sealing and insulating over the next couple of years, but will still end up with only a mediocre result (i.e. will go from an ~R-24 roof cavity to an ~R-48, etc.)
 
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@SpaceBus thanks for your reply. I went back and read your original thread (linked above) about your install and initial thoughts. Seems like a pretty good little stove!

I would love to hear any more of your experiences that you'd like to share, plus it would be great to have another updated thread about this on the forum in case anybody else is in my shoes. Have you figured out a smoke-free start without the small butane torch?

I would prefer the glass top, but will likely have to top vent given my tight space, so not sure if that will work.

My house is very small (~600 sq ft), but not very well insulated. Additionally, there is an above-grade plumbed crawlspace that I hope can be heated just with spillover from the living space. I will be doing some air sealing and insulating over the next couple of years, but will still end up with only a mediocre result (i.e. will go from an ~R-24 roof cavity to an ~R-48, etc.)
How much room is in the crawl space? It might just end up robbing heat from the whole house. I take it you are in some kind of tiny home? Rear vent might not be a big deal depending on how much space you need behind the stove. We a very well insulated (R23+ walls, R50-ish attic) saltbox and the cookstove cannot be the sole heat. It can provide 100% of our heating needs down to 20's during the day and around freezing at night. The output is there, but due to the way the stove is designed it doesn't actually heat the house nearly as well as our free standing Morso 2b classic. Our Morso has a smaller firebox, is cast iron, and more efficient at getting the heat into the house. The North dumps most of the heat into the top and oven, and those BTU's eventually go up the flue. This is a plus in my opinion, since it allows for a lot of flexibility in use. On cold mornings and cold nights I burn both stoves. Now that winter is mostly over we are just burning one stove at a time, usually our cookstove.

All that being said, I do know of one way you could maybe make it work in such a small space. We have two portable ducted AC units that can also run in reverse for heating. We have one in our living room, and the other is upstairs and only used in summer. This is basically a heat pump that is inside of the heated envelope. In short it pumps cold air out of the house, which works well in combination with the stove. My wife or I used to reload the Morso during the night, but even on cold nights into the negatives with high wind if I load up both stoves full and remember to turn on the heater we can easily keep the heat over night. Since the heat pump is pumping cold air out of the house, this makes the stoves cool a bit faster. I used to have embers in the morning with the Morso when loading full of hardwoods 8+ hours later, but with the heat pump running only ash is left behind. Even with this minor drawback of cooling the stoves a bit faster, the house stays much warmer without reloading. Well worth the $25-50/month to run the unit considering we went from three cords a winter to two cords so far this season.

I can easily get a smokeless start these days, and just using matches! Now I just crack a window/door, and start small fires with very small kindling. A big part of our issue is house tightness. On calm days without wind the draft in the flue is not strong enough to pull in enough make-up air. Once the stove is going this is not an issue, just for total cold lights. Even if there are just a few embers left I don't usually have to open the door. All that being said, I think an interior flue would have solved most of our issues. Due to the layout of our hose the bathtub is directly above the cookstove, so I went through the wall and right up the side of our house. Looking back now I could have overcome this and figured out an interior flue, but I'm still happy with this setup. Eventually I'll build an insulated chase for the exterior chimney and hopefully not have to crack the doors to start the fire.

The only beef I have with the stove itself, not install related, is the low quality black stove paint used on the painted parts of the stove. With that in mind I would suggest the stainless version. I wanted one, but they didn't have any in the US with a left hand flue in stainless. The black paint does not tolerate any tomato products and I have many bare spots from splatter and spills.

The refractory lining is not very durable, like many stoves, and I suggest buying an extra lining kit with the stove if you buy one, I'll be getting a second set myself, about $300. My back refractory piece is pretty cracked up, but staying in place. I was a bit overzealous on a hot reload early into ownership...

I absolutely love cooking on the glass top. It is totally worth whatever you have to do to make a rear vent work. It heats up very fast and gets hotter than the steel top. It's easy to clean with a razor and polishing kit. There are some micro scratches on it from using cast iron cookware, but you can only see them when looking very close. The oven is also amazing. Cooking times will not be the same as most instructions since the oven is not ventilated. For example, pizzas come out better, but take a little longer since the steam can't escape. There are few things I prefer to bake in an electric appliance, and usually I'm air frying it in that case. I can still make things crispy in the cookstove, it just takes longer and I have to open the door at least once to let the steam escape.

Short version of the above paragraph: Things on top are faster, things in the oven take longer.

I'll definitely update my original thread for other people looking at this stove.
 
How much room is in the crawl space? It might just end up robbing heat from the whole house. I take it you are in some kind of tiny home? Rear vent might not be a big deal depending on how much space you need behind the stove. We a very well insulated (R23+ walls, R50-ish attic) saltbox and the cookstove cannot be the sole heat. It can provide 100% of our heating needs down to 20's during the day and around freezing at night. The output is there, but due to the way the stove is designed it doesn't actually heat the house nearly as well as our free standing Morso 2b classic. Our Morso has a smaller firebox, is cast iron, and more efficient at getting the heat into the house. The North dumps most of the heat into the top and oven, and those BTU's eventually go up the flue. This is a plus in my opinion, since it allows for a lot of flexibility in use. On cold mornings and cold nights I burn both stoves. Now that winter is mostly over we are just burning one stove at a time, usually our cookstove.

All that being said, I do know of one way you could maybe make it work in such a small space. We have two portable ducted AC units that can also run in reverse for heating. We have one in our living room, and the other is upstairs and only used in summer. This is basically a heat pump that is inside of the heated envelope. In short it pumps cold air out of the house, which works well in combination with the stove. My wife or I used to reload the Morso during the night, but even on cold nights into the negatives with high wind if I load up both stoves full and remember to turn on the heater we can easily keep the heat over night. Since the heat pump is pumping cold air out of the house, this makes the stoves cool a bit faster. I used to have embers in the morning with the Morso when loading full of hardwoods 8+ hours later, but with the heat pump running only ash is left behind. Even with this minor drawback of cooling the stoves a bit faster, the house stays much warmer without reloading. Well worth the $25-50/month to run the unit considering we went from three cords a winter to two cords so far this season.

I can easily get a smokeless start these days, and just using matches! Now I just crack a window/door, and start small fires with very small kindling. A big part of our issue is house tightness. On calm days without wind the draft in the flue is not strong enough to pull in enough make-up air. Once the stove is going this is not an issue, just for total cold lights. Even if there are just a few embers left I don't usually have to open the door. All that being said, I think an interior flue would have solved most of our issues. Due to the layout of our hose the bathtub is directly above the cookstove, so I went through the wall and right up the side of our house. Looking back now I could have overcome this and figured out an interior flue, but I'm still happy with this setup. Eventually I'll build an insulated chase for the exterior chimney and hopefully not have to crack the doors to start the fire.

The only beef I have with the stove itself, not install related, is the low quality black stove paint used on the painted parts of the stove. With that in mind I would suggest the stainless version. I wanted one, but they didn't have any in the US with a left hand flue in stainless. The black paint does not tolerate any tomato products and I have many bare spots from splatter and spills.

The refractory lining is not very durable, like many stoves, and I suggest buying an extra lining kit with the stove if you buy one, I'll be getting a second set myself, about $300. My back refractory piece is pretty cracked up, but staying in place. I was a bit overzealous on a hot reload early into ownership...

I absolutely love cooking on the glass top. It is totally worth whatever you have to do to make a rear vent work. It heats up very fast and gets hotter than the steel top. It's easy to clean with a razor and polishing kit. There are some micro scratches on it from using cast iron cookware, but you can only see them when looking very close. The oven is also amazing. Cooking times will not be the same as most instructions since the oven is not ventilated. For example, pizzas come out better, but take a little longer since the steam can't escape. There are few things I prefer to bake in an electric appliance, and usually I'm air frying it in that case. I can still make things crispy in the cookstove, it just takes longer and I have to open the door at least once to let the steam escape.

Short version of the above paragraph: Things on top are faster, things in the oven take longer.

I'll definitely update my original thread for other people looking at this stove.
Awesome, thanks for the info! I am really leaning towards this stove. I will go back and measure to see if I have room for the rear vent.
 
The steel top will still work well if that's the best fit for your configuration and budget.
 
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The steel top is still great and I would buy this stove even without the glass top. At the time I ordered my stove the glass top was only $300 more. The steel top does have the advantage of a removeable plate for direct flame contact. A great feature for trying to cook with the stove top in warmer weather.

I know $800 is a lot but the only other stove I know of with a glass top is the Hearthstone Deva 100, and I'm not sure if it is UL listed or has such tight clearances. The only other tight clearance stove I can think of off hand is the Esse Ironheart, an expensive stove with a small oven.
 
I believe the Deva 100 is UL certified. It has been WH labs tested. Here are the clearances. Click to enlarge. Clearance reduction is allowed with an NFPA 211 wall shield.

Screen Shot 2022-03-23 at 1.10.45 PM.png
 
I believe the Deva 100 is UL certified. It has been WH labs tested. Here are the clearances. Click to enlarge. Clearance reduction is allowed with an NFPA 211 wall shield.

View attachment 293947
Wow, those are great clearances with double wall pipe! I didn't look too close originally because I needed UL stove with a water coil. Definitely a solid option for someone who doesn't need one.
 
I believe the Deva 100 is UL certified. It has been WH labs tested. Here are the clearances. Click to enlarge. Clearance reduction is allowed with an NFPA 211 wall shield.

View attachment 293947
Hi! I'm so confused about clearances. I am purchasing a Deva 100 and per 2 retailers, they said that it cannot be reduced past 12" using a heat shield per the NFPA manual. I'm assuming they know what they are talking about as they sell wood burning appliances. But...when I read the NFPA manual, it gives a formula and per that you can reduce a percentage based on the type of shield. One explanation I got was that because the Deva 100 manual does not state "clearance reduction to combustibles can be achieved with proper shielding" that 12" is the minimum. I'm purchasing regardless but it would be great to get better clearance! Thank you :).
 
Hi! I'm so confused about clearances. I am purchasing a Deva 100 and per 2 retailers, they said that it cannot be reduced past 12" using a heat shield per the NFPA manual. I'm assuming they know what they are talking about as they sell wood burning appliances. But...when I read the NFPA manual, it gives a formula and per that you can reduce a percentage based on the type of shield. One explanation I got was that because the Deva 100 manual does not state "clearance reduction to combustibles can be achieved with proper shielding" that 12" is the minimum. I'm purchasing regardless but it would be great to get better clearance! Thank you :).
When in doubt, go with the manual. My Tim Sistem stove has a 6" clearance to combustibles, but in the manual it specifically states you can do the NFPA approved heat shield to reduce the clearance by 2/3. If the manual doesn't say you can do it, then the stove wasn't tested in that configuration and I would respect the manual. Stove retailers can be hit or miss with their level of expertise, but the cookstove niche is so small you can probably defer to them for most things. It was wise to seek a second opinion. If you don't mind me asking, what retailers have you spoken to? The cookstove world is pretty small, so I can guess that one is Obadiah's.
 
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Documentation can be hit or miss too. The lowest permissible clearance is 12" unless the manufacturer has provided lower, tested, clearances. This doesn't necessarily mean that a closer clearance than 12" will be dangerous. That depends on the stove, but 12" is the lowest allowable unless documented by the manufacturer. I have seen ambiguity on this in several manuals and it is confusing. Often the question comes down to the insurance company and inspector's approval.
 
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When in doubt, go with the manual. My Tim Sistem stove has a 6" clearance to combustibles, but in the manual it specifically states you can do the NFPA approved heat shield to reduce the clearance by 2/3. If the manual doesn't say you can do it, then the stove wasn't tested in that configuration and I would respect the manual. Stove retailers can be hit or miss with their level of expertise, but the cookstove niche is so small you can probably defer to them for most things. It was wise to seek a second opinion. If you don't mind me asking, what retailers have you spoken to? The cookstove world is pretty small, so I can guess that one is Obadiah's.
Thanks so much for your response. I am actually going through a dealer in Fairbanks AK. We have several Hearthstone dealers in AK but they were the only one that had one available in a month (we've been planning for a year but it's been a saga with cancelled orders and all sorts). The others were 6 - 8 months out or more.
 
Documentation can be hit or miss too. The lowest permissible clearance is 12" unless the manufacturer has provided lower, tested, clearances. This doesn't necessarily mean that a closer clearance than 12" will be dangerous. That depends on the stove, but 12" is the lowest allowable unless documented by the manufacturer. I have seen ambiguity on this in several manuals and it is confusing. Often the question comes down to the insurance company and inspector's approval.
Thanks!