Possible draft problem.

[DamienBricka]

Hello Guys,

I am having so possible draft problem with my stove. It maybe due to flue chimney install not done correctly.

I bought a chimney liner with insulation from: "Chimneyonline.com several years ago. I tried to install it with the insulation but it always got caught somewhere in the chimney so I was not able to put it in all the way down. So I send an email to the company. I got and answer back from them. I was told it was OK to install the flue with no insulation. I was also told to stuff at the top and bottom of the flue as much insulation as I could, That is what I did.

Is this a correct install?

 

[DAKSY]

Hello Guys,

I am having so possible draft problem with my stove. It maybe due to flue chimney install not done correctly.

I bought a chimney liner with insulation from: "Chimneyonline.com several years ago. I tried to install it with the insulation but it always got caught somewhere in the chimney so I was not able to put it in all the way down. So I send an email to the company. I got and answer back from them. I was told it was OK to install the flue with no insulation. I was also told to stuff at the top and bottom of the flue as much insulation as I could, That is what I did.

Is this a correct install?

Should be fine, as long as you didn't damage the liner. If you insulate the top & bottom you will create a column of dead air between the insulated areas, which should be almost the same as insulating the entire thing. What else can you tell us about the install? How tall is the chimney? Are all the connections tight? Is the cap clear? Has the liner been cleaned recently?

 

[DamienBricka]

I do not believe the liner was damaged because without the insulation my Father and I had not problem installing it. Yes it is insulated on top and bottom I was able to put a lot if insulation in. The chimney is about 18 feet high. It is inside the house. Does it meet the 10-2-3 rule not idea never checked it. From my recollection all the connections are tight. Yes the liner was clean on 11/5/2013 and since then I have burned 84% of a cord. Cap clear I believe so I checked with binocular and it seemed fine.

 

[DAKSY]

Everything sounds ok. What's the problem you're having?

 

[DamienBricka]

Everything sounds ok. What's the problem you're having?

I just have a problem when I start the stove and I Just want to make sure that all is done right. That is all.

 

[DAKSY]

Have you tried a "top-down" start?

 

[DamienBricka]

Yes I have. The top down starts fine. But when I add more wood that is when the problem begins. Since my box is only 18*11*10. Maybe when I reload my logs are to big. I know it is not the wood because I split a piece or two every day and the middle is below 20% humidity

 

[DAKSY]

Yes I have. The top down starts fine. But when I add more wood that is when the problem begins. Since my box is only 18*11*10. Maybe when I reload my logs are to big. I know it is not the wood because I split a piece or two every day and the middle is below 20% humidity

Do you open the primary? Wait. Open the load door SLOWLY?

 

[fossil]

You still haven't really described what problem you're experiencing. Exactly what is it that's going on that causes you concern?

 

[DamienBricka]

Once I have started the fire top to bottom everything is fine. Later when I reload the stove with wood, it has difficulty to light up again. They are plenty of coals in the stove and I leave the door open about an inch. Once the wood is burning I close the primaries slowly and after 30 minutes the fire dies. I opened the door to check the wood it has not burned all the way and it start again to burn sometimes. I am frustrated

 

[begreen]

E/W loaders can be a bit frustrating to relight at times. Maybe put the wood on the coal bed a little earlier? And when you do, rake your coals into 2 N/S piles about 2-3" apart in the center of the stove with a valley between them. That will help air get under the new wood and let it ignite quicker. You can also use some 2x2x10" scraps or 2" branches to act like sleepers and create this tunnel of love.

 

[fossil]

You might be waiting too long before adding fuel. Your splits might be larger than optimum. You might be starting to shut the air down prematurely. Your wood might not be optimally seasoned. In any case, I think it's an operator thing rather than some sort of draft problem.

 

[branchburner]

I opened the door to check the wood it has not burned all the way and it start again to burn sometimes.

This does not sound right, but I can't see why your liner would be at fault. You have not really indicated that the stove is not heating the house... what are your flue temps and/or stove top temps, and your house temps, and burn times on a load of wood? Is the top plate sealed? Need more info to pinpoint the problem, but sounds draft related. "Does it meet the 10-2-3 rule no idea never checked it" suggests maybe you SHOULD check it, no?

 

[DamienBricka]

Is the top plate sealed?

I do not have a top plate.

burn times on a load of wood?

20 to 30 minutes when it stops burning when I reopen the door the fire starts again.

your flue temps and/or stove top temps

Flue temperature around 180F and stove top can barely get it above 300F.

And my wood consumption has increase 3 to 4 times. At this rate wood will be more expensive then electrical heat.

House temperature over the last few days 62F. I cannot bring it up higher.

 

[blades]

I do not have a top plate.



20 to 30 minutes when it stops burning when I reopen the door the fire starts again.




Flue temperature around 180F and stove top can barely get it above 300F.

And my wood consumption has increase 3 to 4 times. At this rate wood will be more expensive then electrical heat.

House temperature over the last few days 62F. I cannot bring it up higher.

Sounds more like a supply air problem. Is your living quarters very tight air infiltration wise?, Try cracking a window close by the stove to see if that helps, if it does then you likely would need to add a outside air supply, it happens every so often that a place is so air tight no make up air or insufficient quantity causes a problem like this.

 

[DamienBricka]

Is your living quarters very tight air infiltration wise?

Yes it is very tight When I had the house sprayed foamed 11 years ago the guy who did the blower door test told me the house was to tight.

would need to add a outside air supply

And how do I do that since I cannot attach an OAK to my stove

 

[begreen]

Let's consider the draft. We'll need to know exactly how the stove is vented. Describe the flue system, starting at the stove and all the way to the chimney top.

 

[DamienBricka]

Let's consider the draft. We'll need to know exactly how the stove is vented. Describe the flue system, starting at the stove and all the way to the chimney top.

I decide to include a drawing if you need clarification please ask

 

[begreen]

Good start. What is the height of the liner? Is it 6" stainless?
Nevermind, I found it - 18ft correct?

So the flue install is on the cusp. 18ft is good, but it is countered by the double 90 starting off and a basement install. Two 90 deg turns in the smoke path are going to add enough resistance to act like someone effectively lopped off about 6 ft of the pipe. The double 90 can be slightly improved by using a pair of 45's with an offset to connect to the thimble. And/or ou might also want to add a few feet to the top.

Does opening a nearby window a crack improve the fire?

 

[DamienBricka]

Is it 6" stainless? Yes

Does opening a nearby window a crack improve the fire? Not really

The double 90 can be slightly improved by using a pair of 45's with an offset to connect to the thimble

Please clarify "thimble"

So the flue install is on the cusp

Please clarify "cusp"

Since my chimney bricks outside need to be replaced. Am I better off removing the old chimney and installing a straight stainless flue? The question on this one will it be cost effective?

 

[begreen]

The thimble or crock is the connecting pipe in the side of the chimney.
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/passing_a_chimney

Please clarify "cusp"

Your effective chimney height is about 12-3 ft due to the double 90 turn.

Since my chimney bricks outside need to be replaced. Am I better off removing the old chimney and installing a straight stainless flue? The question on this one will it be cost effective?

Can't say without knowing the cost of repair. You've already invested in the flue liner. Get a quote from the mason and compare. 21' of exterior chimney is going to run about $1500-2000 installed unless you DIY.

 

[DamienBricka]

Your effective chimney height is about 12-3 ft due to the double 90 turn.

Would it help if I add an additional 3 feet in length to the top of the chimney? If if does what is the best way to proceed?

Can't say without knowing the cost of repair. You've already invested in the flue. Get a quote from the mason and compare. 21' of exterior chimney is going to run about $1500-2000 installed.

So I will have if fixed I was quotes around $500 to have it fixed by a mason.

 

[begreen]

Well, the best way would be to have the mason add a couple feet to the chimney and then put in a taller liner. But in lieu of that you could try a liner extension like this:
(broken link removed to http://www.rockfordchimneysupply.com/rockford.php?item=FlueExtender)

 

[DamienBricka]

Well, the best way would be to have the mason add a couple feet to the chimney and then put in a taller liner. But in lieu of that you could try a liner extension like this: (broken link removed to http://www.rockfordchimneysupply.com/rockford.php?item=FlueExtender)

This seems to be a simple and cheaper alternative. It may reduce help reduce my draft problem.

Your effective chimney height is about 12-3 ft due to the double 90 turn.

So is adding an extra 18" enough to increase the draft? Or should I combine that with 2 45 degree elbow? What are your thoughts?

 

[begreen]

I would combine it with the two 45s for best effect. Something like this: