Pressed Logs Question

[natsea]

Hello. We've been burning regular cord wood in our woodstove for a long time but have recently started using the pressed logs and they seem to work quite well and be a lot less of a hassle. I'm very familiar with how large a cord of wood is and how many we go through each winter (3 cords), but I'm having trouble trying to substitute that with a pallet of pressed logs. I'm not looking for the size of a pallet, but rather how many pallets of pressed logs = a cord of regular wood? In other words, if I normally use 3 cords of wood each winter, I wonder how many pallets of pressed logs I would need to order? Currently, we have an old woodstove that isn't too airtight anymore but we're planning to get a new woodstove soon and I know that will help with their burn time. This will also help me figure out cost comparison of cord vs pallet. Since we're new to burning pressed logs, any advice, tips, etc would be helpful. Thanks!

 

[Dataman]

(broken link removed to http://www.northidahoenergylogs.com/energylogs.php)

They claim 1.5-2 Cords per pallet. Me I would figure 1 Pallet = 1 Cord of Wood. If you use 3 Cords buy 3 Pallets worth

 

[begreen]

Good question. It will depend on the quality of the pressed log or brick fuel. For NIELS or Prest Logs, figure a pallet = roughly 1.5 cords of wood. Note that they need to be stored in a dry location.

 

[lsucet]

I actually put an order of a pallet of NIELs to try them. It is not cheap.
The pallet brings 240 logs. My idea is to toss one once awhile.. lets see if is worth it.

 

[begreen]

HomeFire Prest Logs are 380 logs per pallet @ 2000lbs. This is why equivalents to cordwood volume are product specific.

 

[GadDummit]

Are these pressed logs cheaper than regular wood? We don't have a dealer around here and they don't seem to sell them online. If they're cheaper, I'd like to give 'em a shot.

 

[natsea]

Thanks Dataman for the link - that helps a lot. And thanks everyone for your input. With an older stove that's not so airtight, I'll plan on one pallet equaling about one cord of wood. Once we have a newer airtight stove, then maybe we can get 1.5 cords worth out of it. We've purchased single logs of both North Idaho and Homefire to try them out and both seem to work really well and make a nice hot fire. And it's so great not having slumbering bees waking up inside the house!

 

[lsucet]

Are these pressed logs cheaper than regular wood? We don't have a dealer around here and they don't seem to sell them online. If they're cheaper, I'd like to give 'em a shot.

In my situation I don't think is cheaper. I am paying a little over $2 for each log of 8 pounds .NIELS.
I just want to try it and live the experience. But the hasle of get them thru a dealer that is not close to me plus the price it is not worth it.

 

[SpaceBus]

HomeFire Prest Logs are 380 logs per pallet @ 2000lbs. This is why equivalents to cordwood volume are product specific.

Does it really matter? 2,000 lbs of wood is 2,000 lbs of wood. Admittedly some stoves seem to burn different compressed products differently. Overall they should all be around 7,000 btu/lb if they are made of wood.

 

[lsucet]

NIELs claimed 64000 BTUs per logs. The pallet brings 240 logs. Do the math, some species of pine has more BTUs per cord and is alot cheaper. For that money I can get 4 cords of pine buying it if I don't want to go and get it for $20 a permit. And it can be the amount I use for the winter. Unless you have unseasoned wood for the winter or run out of wood, I don't see the advantage of compress wood.

 

[Dataman]

I think they are $175 per pallet over in Oldtown Idaho. no Delivery Same for Pellets

 

[begreen]

Does it really matter? 2,000 lbs of wood is 2,000 lbs of wood. Admittedly some stoves seem to burn different compressed products differently. Overall they should all be around 7,000 btu/lb if they are made of wood.

Yes it does. Different species of wood have different btus per pound. None are as high as a quality compressed wood product. The very high levels of compression make a fuel denser than wood. In fact, NIELs & Homefires are so dense they don't float.

For example: Home Fires are tested at 8,126/lb. NIELs have 8,600 btus/lb. In contrast oak has about 5,802 btus/lb.

Interestingly, pine is less dense than oak, but has more btus/lb. at 6,407 btus. Hickory and osage orange are winners here. Hickory has 6,894 btus/lb.

 

[begreen]

NIELs claimed 64000 BTUs per logs. The pallet brings 240 logs. Do the math, some species of pine has more BTUs per cord and is alot cheaper. For that money I can get 4 cords of pine buying it if I don't want to go and get it for $20 a permit. And it can be the amount I use for the winter. Unless you have unseasoned wood for the winter or run out of wood, I don't see the advantage of compress wood.

There's a major advantage for people living in urban areas that are buying wood. A cord in Seattle goes for $350-$400 delivered. Also, good quality highly-compressed fuel products burn much cleaner than cord wood. That can make a big difference with several houses on a block in a neighborhood. Then there is the advantage of not getting "seasoned" wood delivered that really isn't.

 

[SpaceBus]

Yes it does. Different species of wood have different btus per pound. None are as high as a quality compressed wood product. The very high levels of compression make a fuel denser than wood. In fact, NIELs & Homefires are so dense they don't float.

For example: Home Fires are tested at 8,126/lb. NIELs have 8,600 btus/lb. In contrast oak has about 5,802 btus/lb.

Interestingly, pine is less dense than oak, but has more btus/lb. at 6,407 btus. Hickory and osage orange are winners here. Hickory has 6,894 btus/lb.

How are you getting those ratings? Are you calculating per cord or per pound? Pound for pound, all wood is the same. The difference being that one pound of pine occupies more space than a hard wood like oak.

If what you were saying were true, stoves would alter heating output based on type of wood. However, we know this is not true, but that denser woods burn longer with the stove putting out the same heat as it would for a shorter duration compared to less dense soft woods.

Obviously everything I said goes out the window when comparing wood with different moisture contents.

So for for compressed wood products, I don't buy the ratings, unless they add something other than wood. Perhaps they are able to get more BTU/Lb because they remove all of the air pockets from the wood making it as dense as possible.


Here's a study from the University of Missouri about heating with wood. (broken link removed to http://extension.missouri.edu/publications/DisplayPrinterFriendlyPub.aspx?P=G5450)

 

[SpaceBus]

It seems that wood could have 8,600 btu/lb if it could have zero moisture content, but I don't think this is possible and this value is only helpful when determining the heat value of a piece of actual wood with a known moisture content. If the NIELs are less than 5% moisture, they could be approaching 8,000 btu/lb, but they still would need a component other than wood to achieve their claimed ratings.

 

[begreen]

If I had to hazard a guess this would be related to moisture content, but perhaps additionally also volatiles content? Note how much higher doug fir btus/lb is than live oak or eucalyptus for example. The pellet stove burners also found this out when comparing softwood pellets to hardwood.
http://worldforestindustries.com/forest-biofuel/firewood/firewood-btu-ratings/

Here is the info Home Fire has posted. They are made mostly from doug fir sawdust I think.
http://www.homefirelogs.com/about-our-logs

 

[EbS-P]

It seems that wood could have 8,600 btu/lb if it could have zero moisture content, but I don't think this is possible and this value is only helpful when determining the heat value of a piece of actual wood with a known moisture content. If the NIELs are less than 5% moisture, they could be approaching 8,000 btu/lb, but they still would need a component other than wood to achieve their claimed ratings.

I think moisture content is a key part of this discussion. I stuck my moisture meter in an enviro brick and could not get a reading. I didn’t break it apart but it’s It was less than 2% on the outside. They claim one ton (single pallet) is equivalent to one cord of hardwood. I haven’t checked their math.

 

[begreen]

Doug Fir = 8618 btus/lb
Western Lodgepole pine = 8643 btus/lb.
White Oak = 6388 btus/lb
Osage Orange = 6959 btus/lb

I'm thinking the reason doug fir and lodgepole pine are so high is the oil content of the wood. It's one of the reasons why I like to burn doug fir. My thought is that Home Fires are made from Doug Fir and NIELs are made from Lodgepole Pine.

 

[weatherguy]

Doug Fir = 8618 btus/lb
Western Lodgepole pine = 8643 btus/lb.
White Oak = 6388 btus/lb
Osage Orange = 6959 btus/lb

I'm thinking the reason doug fir and lodgepole pine are so high is the oil content of the wood. It's one of the reasons why I like to burn doug fir. My thought is that Home Fires are made from Doug Fir and NIELs are made from Lodgepole Pine.

I didnt know that, thought they used a variety, definately have to try home fires next year.

 

[begreen]

I didnt know that, thought they used a variety, definately have to try home fires next year.

I'm hoping Virginia from Home Fires can check in to verify. This is what I recall, but it's been many years since I asked.

 

[MTY]

I have a small home built barrel stove I use in my tent. Now this will seem weird, but I take compressed wood logs, it does not matter which brand, out camping. I burn wood while awake, but the stove will not hold a fire overnight with wood. So, at bedtime I stuff the stove with the compressed logs and still have a enough coals in the morning that a quick stir and a bit of wood will have the tent warm before I am dressed.

I figure there is a heck of a lot more wood squeezed into one of those logs than in an equal sized split of tamarack. I just have to make sure they do not get wet. If they do, they quickly begin to swell and will turn back to sawdust.

From these experiences, I would venture a guess that burning the compressed logs would increase your burn times and reduce the amount of trips to the stove. This convenience may have a dollar value to you. Unless you have adequate inside dry storage, buy one pallet at a time.

 

[Dug8498]

I’ve looked into this and a pallet of compressed wood bricks of any brand is lower in total btu output than a cord of oak, hickory, maple... basically a cord of any hardwood, even pine. I guess I haven’t measured this in any scientific way, but I feel like I’m going through this pallet I have at about the same rate I go through a cord or wood.

for me to buy a pallet of compressed wood bricks from a reputable company near me is $300 per pallet. That may seem like a lot to some, but where I am, to buy a cord of wood you will be paying a minimum of $225 a cord, maybe $200 if you get lucky. I have to buy most of my firewood, so a $75 difference seems almost worth it to me as I need to do not stacking, moving, etc...

I am thinking of starting to just buy pallets of these from now on as they’ll save me a chit load of time and I have a baby on the way. I would, of course, always prefer wood that I could acquire for free or lower cost.


They’re also really really clean burning. No smoke from my stack when I burn these and I have a pre epa stove.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[SpaceBus]

I’ve looked into this and a pallet of compressed wood bricks of any brand is lower in total btu output than a cord of oak, hickory, maple... basically a cord of any hardwood, even pine. I guess I haven’t measured this in any scientific way, but I feel like I’m going through this pallet I have at about the same rate I go through a cord or wood.

for me to buy a pallet of compressed wood bricks from a reputable company near me is $300 per pallet. That may seem like a lot to some, but where I am, to buy a cord of wood you will be paying a minimum of $225 a cord, maybe $200 if you get lucky. I have to buy most of my firewood, so a $75 difference seems almost worth it to me as I need to do not stacking, moving, etc...

I am thinking of starting to just buy pallets of these from now on as they’ll save me a chit load of time and I have a baby on the way. I would, of course, always prefer wood that I could acquire for free or lower cost.


They’re also really really clean burning. No smoke from my stack when I burn these and I have a pre epa stove.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If I had limited space or had to pay for firewood, I would totally burn them full time. I'm using them now to help my marginal wood.

 

[xman23]

I tried a few packs of them last year. They burned well. I put them on my covered wood pile under a roof covered roof. I suspect a few got a little wet. They fell apart. Anyone else have this problem?

 

[Rich L]

HomeFire Prest Logs are 380 logs per pallet @ 2000lbs. This is why equivalents to cordwood volume are product specific.

Prest logs are smaller than the NIEL logs and they don't say they're 100 % hardwood just wood product whatever that means. I thought I read sometime ago that the NIELs were made from 100% hardwood however now there is no mention of them being made from 100% hardwood.