Princess temperature control w/o side panels

[RustyShackleford]

I don't know how common this is, but I've never installed the side panels on my free-standing Princess. I don't have fans and don't feel that I need them - the stove keeps our 600 sq-ft " great room" (living/dining/kitchen) quite cozy without them - and I think the mostly radiant heat emission works better without the side panels. I am open to different opinions on this though.

What this means is that the control knob has no scale to adjust it against. It just hangs out there several inches from the side of the stove.

This is not ideal for setting the level for overnight burns, so as to avoid stalling the cat while also avoiding burning up most of the wood load. I've been winging it for awhile now, but I'd prefer better control. Has anyone addressed this issue ? I suppose one option would be to cut off a few inches of the rod that holds the knob, so that it's very near the rear edge, and then fabricate some sort of gauge and screw that to the back of the stove using the screw hole that holds the little panel on the back where I guess the fans mount. Any other ideas ?

 

[Murray01]

I’d get a replacement shaft just in case you want to bring the stove back to OEM before you start modifying.

If you’re the only operator of the stove, do you really need a scale?

 

[Whitenuckler]

I don't know how common this is, but I've never installed the side panels on my free-standing Princess. I don't have fans and don't feel that I need them - the stove keeps our 600 sq-ft " great room" (living/dining/kitchen) quite cozy without them - and I think the mostly radiant heat emission works better without the side panels. I am open to different opinions on this though.

What this means is that the control knob has no scale to adjust it against. It just hangs out there several inches from the side of the stove.

View attachment 342319

This is not ideal for setting the level for overnight burns, so as to avoid stalling the cat while also avoiding burning up most of the wood load. I've been winging it for awhile now, but I'd prefer better control. Has anyone addressed this issue ? I suppose one option would be to cut off a few inches of the rod that holds the knob, so that it's very near the rear edge, and then fabricate some sort of gauge and screw that to the back of the stove using the screw hole that holds the little panel on the back where I guess the fans mount. Any other ideas ?

Get a bar magnet and then a small piece of sheet metal painted black- high heat. Make a bend to attach it to the magnet. Then cut a slot slightly bigger than the shaft and slide it on. Then attach a metal pointer to the shaft with Black RTV.

 

[Dieselhead]

Why don’t you put your side panels on?

 

[RustyShackleford]

Why don’t you put your side panels on?

Like I said, I don't want or need fans, and I think it'd just reduce the radiant heat. And the radiant heat (and of course convection around the stove) heats the space just fine.

 

[RustyShackleford]

I’d get a replacement shaft just in case you want to bring the stove back to OEM before you start modifying.

Pretty sure it's literally just a piece of steel rod. Not sure how it disconnects at the thermostat end though.

If you’re the only operator of the stove, do you really need a scale?

Reproducibility of the perfect overnight setting, the minimum possible that prevents cat stall.

 

[Dieselhead]

Like I said, I don't want or need fans, and I think it'd just reduce the radiant heat. And the radiant heat (and of course convection around the stove) heats the space just fine.

BTUs coming off the stove box reflected off the side shields are the same BTUs without side shields either way. It’s not like the side shields put btu back into the firebox. Radiant heat and convection are 2 different things but the same common denominator is in play, btu’s outside the firebox.

 

[RustyShackleford]

BTUs coming off the stove box reflected off the side shields are the same BTUs without side shields either way. It’s not like the side shields put btu back into the firebox. Radiant heat and convection are 2 different things but the same common denominator is in play, btu’s outside the firebox.

I'm not convinced that's true (nor that it's untrue). The amount of heat the stove radiates is defined by Stefan-Boltzmann law (which says it's proportional to the 4th power of its temperature). I've got to think the panels would be cooler than the sides of the firebox. But that's only because of convection - if the gap between them were sealed, then yes the panels would get to the same temperature as the firebox. So maybe the net heat coming from the stove IS the same - a little less radiant and a little more convection.

If a certain amount of wood burns at the same efficiency, then those BTUs gotta go somewhere, as you say. There's only one other place: the flue. Maybe the panels DO make the firebox hotter - they are insulative, of course - and thus the flue gasses hotter.

The other issue (assuming you're right): does that shift to less radiative heat and more conductive heat increase or decrease the comfort level in the room ?

Do we have any physicists here ? I'd be curious as to the thoughts of @BKVP . Or I could just put the panels on and see how I like it

 

[Montanalocal]

The BTUs may be the same. However, there is another factor to consider, and that is how your body feels in the presence of either convection or radiant energy. Most people who burn remark on how heating with firewood just “feels” different. I would think that that difference has to do with how your body feels when it receives radiant energy, which it does not get under most any other form of heat. Just why that is I am not smart enough to know.

 

[Dieselhead]

The BTUs may be the same. However, there is another factor to consider, and that is how your body feels in the presence of either convection or radiant energy. Most people who burn remark on how heating with firewood just “feels” different. I would think that that difference has to do with how your body feels when it receives radiant energy, which it does not get under most any other form of heat. Just why that is I am not smart enough to know.

If you are in close proximity to the stove the radiant heat will feel different, once you move further away i don’t think there would be any difference between radiant and convective. The front throws plenty if you are within 5’ or so, I just don’t know if it’s worth not having the side shields off and dealing with the thermostat headache to gain radiant heat off the side especially if you are not sitting next to it. Maybe have 1 side on and one side off and see if there’s any benefit. 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

[Dieselhead]

I'm not convinced that's true (nor that it's untrue). The amount of heat the stove radiates is defined by Stefan-Boltzmann law (which says it's proportional to the 4th power of its temperature). I've got to think the panels would be cooler than the sides of the firebox. But that's only because of convection - if the gap between them were sealed, then yes the panels would get to the same temperature as the firebox. So maybe the net heat coming from the stove IS the same - a little less radiant and a little more convection.

If a certain amount of wood burns at the same efficiency, then those BTUs gotta go somewhere, as you say. There's only one other place: the flue. Maybe the panels DO make the firebox hotter - they are insulative, of course - and thus the flue gasses hotter.

The other issue (assuming you're right): does that shift to less radiative heat and more conductive heat increase or decrease the comfort level in the room ?

Do we have any physicists here ? I'd be curious as to the thoughts of @BKVP . Or I could just put the panels on and see how I like it

I think if bkvp decides to comment it will have to be off the record because the stove was rated with the side panels installed

 

[RustyShackleford]

Little story about radiant heat (or should I say radiant heat transfer). I installed a heat pump in our mountain house, which has a big stone-facade fireplace. First couple of times we went up in the winter, I fired the thing up and at some point it claimed to have satisfied the thermostat, at 70+ degrees or so. But I still felt cold. Turns out I was radiating heat to the stone fireplace (or it was sucking heat from me).

The radiant heat we love from our stoves can work in reverse. People in the desert have made ice by letting water radiate heat into space.

 

[tabner]

Pretty sure it's literally just a piece of steel rod. Not sure how it disconnects at the thermostat end though.

Reproducibility of the perfect overnight setting, the minimum possible that prevents cat stall.

Pretty certain the steel rod is calibrated/fixed to the thermostat, you aren't supposed to disconnect or tinker with that end. I bought a new thermostat from the factory, and it came with the rod fixed to it. I don't think you can buy just the rod.
Might be helpful to mention though, you can definitely cut that rod down if you want. When i ordered my thermostat from BK direct, the rod was too long for my 20 box, they said the rods all come at a standard length and you just cut it shorter if you have a smaller model. So you'd be fine to cut it down closer to the side of the stove. But if you ever wanted to revert it back to stock you would have to buy a whole new thermostat/rod assembly which i think was around $300.

 

[Tron]

But that's only because of convection - if the gap between them were sealed, then yes the panels would get to the same temperature as the firebox. So maybe the net heat coming from the stove IS the same - a little less radiant and a little more convection.

Chemist here, but close enough. Yes, that's about it.
But since the firebox temperature is mainly controlled by the thermostat, you might need to turn it up a little more with the side shields on. That would not result in more BTU's generated, but because the firebox is insulated a little better., it would be a bit hotter. That may result in more heat escaping through the flue, but I doubt it would be a measurable amount.

And convection heat is great to heat up the air and get it moved throughout the house. Radiant heat heats up the walls, which usually are thermally connected to the outside, which loses heat there. So it might be a net gain after all.

 

[Highbeam]

I would try and clamp something to that rod with a pointer near the stove body. Heck, a little piece of that metal plumbing tape and a little bolt and nut. All you need is a pointer that is fixed to the rod. Then you can choose to use the stove body for reference or if you want to add a flag type dial to the stove body right next to that pointer.

My princess has the side shields. It came with them installed. They're only like a half inch farther out than the stove body and the knob is right there. Why the heck is your rod so long? It's much shorter on my princess. The knob almost touches the side panel.

Perhaps your thermostat has been replaced and not cut to length as described by @tabner ?

 

[RustyShackleford]

Perhaps your thermostat has been replaced and not cut to length as described by @tabner ?

Indeed, it was replaced, because fof the "reverse wound" fault.

I think I'm going to install my side shields, see how I like that. But yeah, the knob will still be way too far from the dial. Need to cut the shaft; just with a hacksaw I guess, but I worry a little about all the vibration from that, since evidently the connection of the rod to the thermostat-proper has some sublety to it.

 

[tabner]

i believe i used a hack saw, put the rod in a vice to hold it nice and steady, minimizing vibration. It's not a super strong metal, cut it half way through and then bend it and it snapped right off - if i remember correctly.

 

[Highbeam]

Indeed, it was replaced, because fof the "reverse wound" fault.

I think I'm going to install my side shields, see how I like that. But yeah, the knob will still be way too far from the dial. Need to cut the shaft; just with a hacksaw I guess, but I worry a little about all the vibration from that, since evidently the connection of the rod to the thermostat-proper has some sublety to it.

Okay, crazy option, since your username involves rusty shackles you probably know how to cut the old dial off of the sideshields and leave enough extra metal to fold over and attach to the stove back wall so that the factory dial is installed on your stove but just without the sideshield. That might support the rod from flopping around too. I would cut that stat rod to the correct length in any case.

I think you should put the sideshields on and try it as intended by BK. The sideshields have nothing to do with the fans, the fans blow up the back and over top of the stove, not the sides. With the sideshields it looks better (less big mac box shape), is safer, and you can cut the rod to length to use the dial as intended. We stay plenty warm with those sideshields and almost never use the fans.

Really, there are interior metal shields as well. Most of the delivered heat comes from the cat to the stove top and the stove front.

 

[Whitenuckler]

Indeed, it was replaced, because fof the "reverse wound" fault.

I think I'm going to install my side shields, see how I like that. But yeah, the knob will still be way too far from the dial. Need to cut the shaft; just with a hacksaw I guess, but I worry a little about all the vibration from that, since evidently the connection of the rod to the thermostat-proper has some sublety to it.

I have found that grinding things off causes less stress than hacksawing. You can use vice grips to stabilize it. If you need to make a pointer on the shaft, I was thinking a long thin piece of aluminum with the end made round, and then RTV'd on.