Any idea how good propane leak fluid works? I'm installing a gas range in my house. The previous owner had everything plumbed and capped under the house. I just had to add a T and a drip leg. My issue is that the whole house shut off valve is before the 2nd stage regulator. Which as far as I can tell there's no way to pressure test without breaking and capping another connection which I want to avoid. Ideas?
Propane leak fluid
- Thread starter rwhite
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I just remembered that I have a 110v gas leak detector that I got free from our propane company. Suppose I can run an extension cord around and test the new connections
Break the connection on the house side of the regulator and test the entire system. I'm assuming the regulator is outside the house? If so I'd rather have an untested connection outside the house at the regulator than inside the house under the range.
Testing solely with a gas-detector likely violates your gas code, and is also unsafe.
As for propane leak fluid are you referring to snoop (essentially soap and water)? If so use it on the connection while under pressure to test for leaks, a leak will cause the snoop to produce bubbles.
Testing solely with a gas-detector likely violates your gas code, and is also unsafe.
As for propane leak fluid are you referring to snoop (essentially soap and water)? If so use it on the connection while under pressure to test for leaks, a leak will cause the snoop to produce bubbles.
I'll take a look and see if I can do it without disconnecting 12 other joints. Wish they would have put a union downstream of the regulator. Based on the shortage of appliances I wont get the range until late January or February so the system is off for now. It did hold 2.5psi for several hours but that's all the pressure it would take before the relief valve bypassed.
If you have access to a threader its probably possible to cold cut the line by the regulator, thread new ends and install a union.
I'm not sure what the code requirements are on a system in the US, but in Canada the minimum test is 15psi for 15 minutes, if the total length of piping is over 200ft it must hold 15psi for an hour.
I'm not sure what the code requirements are on a system in the US, but in Canada the minimum test is 15psi for 15 minutes, if the total length of piping is over 200ft it must hold 15psi for an hour.
Bottled gas by law has an odorant in it. You can usually 'smell' a leak, least I can and my smeller is 70 years old...
It does, but it's not a substitute for a proper pressure test/leak check upon commissioning of a new line.
So I get the importance of testing the line but isn't there always at least one new connection that can't be tested? Even if I isolated the regulator and tested my new connection when I hook it back up I cant test that connection. I suppose it's outside and you could narrow the leak if there was one down to that point. They way I read code is that only new connections have to be tested. Does that mean I could just plug off the T and drip leg and test that 10" piece of pipe? Dont get me wrong i plan to test my connections but i see no way to run a complete test. Maybe I'm missing something here.
Unfortunately there usually is a un-tested joint, but if outside there poses less issues with leaks.
I guess I read your initial post wrong, I was under the impression that original line was installed under the house but never put into service at all, but this isn't the case. Depending on how your code reads a test of the addition may be allowed or even just a leak check. Here there is a clause that states if the addition is less than 20ft in length and operates at less than 0.5psi a 10 minute test with a manometer to verify pressure hold is acceptable.
I guess I read your initial post wrong, I was under the impression that original line was installed under the house but never put into service at all, but this isn't the case. Depending on how your code reads a test of the addition may be allowed or even just a leak check. Here there is a clause that states if the addition is less than 20ft in length and operates at less than 0.5psi a 10 minute test with a manometer to verify pressure hold is acceptable.
Gas is scary stuff. Really scary is that you can buy everything you need to do it at Home Depot so the pipe job can be totally uninspected and leaky. The guy might have used caulk for pipe dope.
Medic21
Minister of Fire
My supplier will not fill a tank without a pressure test, period. They test from the tank line.
The entire system was tested 4 years ago. When I bought the place the tank was nearly empty. Since it was a new purchase the propane company inspected everything and it passed. Definitely no caulk for sealant. It's got yellow dope on all connections. Anyhow I went ahead and broke the connection at the regulator and pressure tested it. Its holding 15 psi for over an hour now.
Same here. In fact I hunt with the owner. Anytime I've needed to check anything or run a line, they come out (his service crew) and they do it. Never touched any of that. They do the regulators, the line and all the fittings. I just had them replace one of the level gauges in one of the tanks, the shut off valve was leaking a tad so I ran that tank down to less than 5% and they replaced everything.... I didn't get charged anything which was nice but I get all my gas from them. I own 2 500 gallon bottles for the house and lease from them 2 1000 gallon bottles for my grain dryers. They charge me a buck a year per bottle for the tanks they own. Get all my gas from them and have for decades. Always within a couple cents of everyone else.
I always get a kick out of him driving to an out of state hunt. He runs his pickup truck on propane. Instead of 'filling up' at a gas station, he gets his 'National Propane Dealers book out and we go the a local propane dealer and they hook up to his in the bed bottle and fill it up. Propane has a lot of advantages over gasoline, the biggest is he don't change the oil but once a year. Stuff burns clean and don't dirty the oil with blowby junk. You'd never know going down the road if it was on gasoline or propane unless he was sitting somewhere and you got a whiff of the exhaust and he has a new GMC 3/4 ton truck with no emissions on it at all. When they installed the propane injection (not cheap), all the exhaust emissions hardware came off. No converter, no O2 sensor, no nothing emissions related. don't need that stuff with propane. I think he told me the conversion was around 6 grand, not including the in bed bottle.
Medic21
Minister of Fire
The system needs tested ANYTIME it looses pressure. Any valve shut off included. The pressure is low but, it does effect expansion and contraction of the lines and that can cause a leak. Even the yellow pipe dope can harden over time.
Still holding at 15lbs. I'll go out after the game is over and give it on final check before I close it all up. I left the gas detector in the crawl space as well just for an extra piece of mind. Will probably pick up a sniffer to check the last connections.
Is this a written rule or a rule of thumb? I'm not trying to be argumentative but that's just something I've never heard of before. I build and maintain industrial pressure piping for a living, much of it operating into the many thousands of psi pressure and this isn't a concern for us, never-mind the 1/4 or 1/2 psi that residential systems operate at. Maybe our jurisdiction just does acknowledge the risk?
If it's holding for multiple hours without intervention you should be fine, your piping system doesn't hold much volume, even a microscopic leak over an hour will bring the test noticeably down below 15psi.
Medic21
Minister of Fire
I read check for leaks, not re-pressure tested.
Pressure Testing and Inspection | UpCodes
Explore a searchable database of US construction and building code. Code regulations are consolidated by state and city for easier navigation.
up.codes
1314.5.2 Leak Check
Immediately after the gas is turned on into a new system or into a system that has been initially restored after an interruption of service, the piping system shall be checked for leakage. Where leakage is indicated, the gas supply shall be shut off until the necessary repairs have been made. [NFPA 54:8.2.3]
Medic21
Minister of Fire
If the pressure test fails, that is an indication of a leak, then a leak detector is used.I read check for leaks, not re-pressure tested.
Pressure Testing and Inspection | UpCodes
Explore a searchable database of US construction and building code. Code regulations are consolidated by state and city for easier navigation.
1314.5.2 Leak Check
Immediately after the gas is turned on into a new system or into a system that has been initially restored after an interruption of service, the piping system shall be checked for leakage. Where leakage is indicated, the gas supply shall be shut off until the necessary repairs have been made. [NFPA 54:8.2.3]
There are multiple annexes to the code book. These are not “law” in most states because building codes supersede the NFPA. However, you will not find a gas company that would fill a tank that you ran empty without a pressure test because that is the NFPA standard. If you read the entire section, instead of a google search, you would find that pressure testing in the initial step. If it passes that then it’s good to go. If it doesn’t then the “sniffer” is used and once it passes the pressure test is used again. The time to hold pressure is 3 min.
I actually went into the BC’s office and read the section to double check.
Then what medium is it tested with and at what pressure? Is it gas (propane/NG) at operating pressure? If that's the case we'd consider it a "service test".
Like I say I'm not trying to be argumentative, but this is something totally foreign to me, most of the industrial codes I follow are very similar in Canada and the US, this however is very different. It doesn't make logical sense to me that a swing in pressure up and down a handful of PSI could cause a leak. The only thing I can think of is its a precautionary measure in the case of a gas outage due to something like an extreme weather event or earthquake, in which movement in the house and gas lines could create a leak.
Medic21
Minister of Fire
NFPA has different testing requirements for LP and NG.
LP is 15psi air pressure for 3 min. Minimum. No idea on NG piping.
I appreciate the comments. I'm really learning stuff here. Funny thing with the inspection they did 4 years ago. This was the first house I've owned with a propane system. All others had NG. After the contract was signed we were informed that we needed to pay the previous owner for the propane that was in the tank. I was kinda pissed because we were talking $150 worth of propane. Anyway the propane company comes out and shuts everything off, pumps the old propane out, then refills. I had to pay the owner for what was in the tank and pay to fill the rest of it. I wasn't here when they did it. I just got an invoice that stated X gallons removed, X gallons filled and entire system inspected for leaks. No idea if they pressure tested or sniffed. As far as I know the system was in operation since the home was built as the only source of heat was the furnace and the ceiling heater in the shop. Luckily when they built the house, even though all appliances were electric, they plumbed the entire place for propane in every place you could ever want it and just stubbed it off under the floor. Living with an electric range for 4 years has bugged the heck out of me so I finally got around to getting a gas range installed. Anyway I left it pressurized for a few hours (had a beer and fell asleep watching football) and it held.
The gas company also sent me a plug in gas detector with the invoice which has been sitting in the package in the cabinet above the fridge for 4 years. As an added measure I tested the detector with a propane torch and installed it the crawlspace. Figured that is the most likely place for propane to accumulate if there was ever a leak.
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