Proud Grandma bear owner!! With questions...

[tsimms]

Hello everyone, I'm Tim... A brand new member here and a new owner of a beautiful Fisher Grandma bear stove.
I grew up with a wood stove in my home (better'N Bens')and love them. I just picked up a really nice grandma bear off craigslist yesterday. Drove 3 hours 1 way. The stove is in really great shape. I love it already.

Don't hate me but It has an 8" rear flue. I'd really like to convert it to a top flue. I've seen it done on 1 of the smaller single door stoves. I have a great welder here in town that can do this really nice. I will likely have him fabricate a baffle for it as well.

So has anyone had experience with doing such a modification? I wonder if changing the 8 " flue to a 7" or even a 6" would be better?
In the process of redoing my living room where the stove will go. I'm starting with a clean slate for the stove so I need to learn as much as I can about installing this beauty. Any suggestions on pipe manufacturer? Size?
Any helpful information you can give me on this would be appreciated..
Thank you,
Tim

 

[tsimms]

 

[tsimms]

 

[tsimms]

 

[bholler]

Get rid of the grate. It doesn't look like your hearth is wide enough. And what is behind the brick wall

 

[tsimms]

Those pictures are from the previous owners.
I plan on building a completely different set up and definitely not using the grate. They did throw it in the deal as well as the screen to keep the door open and tools. Shovel, poker brush.

 

[bholler]

Those pictures are from the previous owners.
I plan on building a completely different set up and definitely not using the grate. They did throw it in the deal as well as the screen to keep the door open and tools. Shovel, poker brush.

Ok good. I do have to question why a Fisher? There are so many options that are far better performing stoves.

 

[tsimms]

I always liked the look of these stoves. They just appeal to me. I spent a lot of time looking for a stove and this is the one that found me...

I won't be using this as a primary source of heat,(unless I have to)..
Its more of a pleasure than necessity.

I really wonder if it will perform better with a smaller outlet on the top.?

 

[bholler]

I always liked the look of these stoves. They just appeal to me. I spent a lot of time looking for a stove and this is the one that found me...

I won't be using this as a primary source of heat,(unless I have to)..
Its more of a pleasure than necessity.

I really wonder if it will perform better with a smaller outlet on the top.?

I think they perform better with a 7" chimney yes. Do you have a chimney? How tall will it be or is it? With enough height 6" can work as well and that would be the proper size if you ever wanted to upgrade to a modern stove.

To be clear I am not saying there is anything wrong with using an old fisher especially for occasional burning. Just making sure that is what you want before you put allot of money into an outdated setup. You do realize that stove needs either 36" clearance to combustibles or ventilated heatsheilds to bring that down to 12"

 

[coaly]

Yes it will perform better with a 6 inch outlet providing the chimney and connector pipe configuration is correct. We need more specifics of the chimney height, ceiling height, and area heated.

The cubic inch of the firebox is less than a Papa Bear which has a 6 inch outlet. The reasons for the larger outlet was open door burning and connecting to an existing chimney built for a fireplace. A larger flue needed much more heat than an insulated 6 inch chimney needs.

I personally would not go to the trouble changing it to a top vent. Venting sideways a few inches down from the top is much better for heat retention in the stove if you have the clearance for the pipe on the back. Top vents were made for straight up installs allowing the stove to be closer to the wall, preventing the need of double wall pipe. With that configuration you lose more heat up the stack which can be corrected with a baffle. The baffle is more important than which way it vents. If you decide to top vent, the outlet vent pipe needs to extend down into firebox 3 inches.

Either way use double wall insulated chimney pipe, not triple wall. I would not weld supports for baffle, you want it adjustable. Only use pipe damper for open door burning. Control the fire with air intakes.

The difference between 6 and 8 inch flue has to do with capacity needed. The square footage area being heated, and how much heat is needed due to heat loss in the building are factors. I tried all 5 standard models on the same 6 inch straight up chimney, heating just over 1800 sq.feet with no smoke roll in issues. They were all rear vent stoves.

 

[tsimms]

Thank you for responding Coaly.
I really like the look of top vent and it will help with clearance.
I'll be starting from scratch so I can make this however I need. There is no stove or chimney pipe in my house right now.

I'll take some measurements of the room and post them.
I really love having the doors open to watch the fire so I'd be doing that alot. Again it's not my primary source of heat but I want it as functional as possible. And of course safe.

With the help from you and everyone in this forum we will build this!!
Its going to take time. I have several projects going on including the living room where the stove will go.

I'm looking forward to learning and building this.

Thank you

 

[coaly]

Sometimes the fire is better to watch than TV.
Welcome to the forum, let us know the progress and any questions.

I know it's hard to find a Grandma or Grandpa with glass, but that's my preference.
@AeroScout just installed an Insert in Texas before the deep freeze there that got them though a tough time with a 6 inch liner. His is a Series IV with glass. It will be interesting to see how well the air wash works with reduced flue in his case. They were able to keep their home at 70* f during 0* weather with no power for 3 days, and cook. Something you can't do with the newer Inserts that are all flush mounted in the fireplace!

 

[tsimms]

Thank you again Coaly
Yes I agree. Watching a fire is mesmerizing.

Can you tell from the pictures of this stove any details like what year or specific model.? Just curious.
I'd love to get a set of those cool bear feet for it

 

[tsimms]

I think they perform better with a 7" chimney yes. Do you have a chimney? How tall will it be or is it? With enough height 6" can work as well and that would be the proper size if you ever wanted to upgrade to a modern stove.

To be clear I am not saying there is anything wrong with using an old fisher especially for occasional burning. Just making sure that is what you want before you put allot of money into an outdated setup. You do realize that stove needs either 36" clearance to combustibles or ventilated heatsheilds to bring that down to 12"

I intend to use some sort of stone surround against the wall. Will I be able to get that clearance down to 12" with something like that?
Again, I'm building from scratch so I can do whatever is necessary.
How can I get that 12" clearance with some type of stone/rockledge type of hearth?
12" clearance would be awesome

 

[coaly]

Very common stove from late '77 to 79. The 5 fin dampers and newer spring handles point to 78 or 79.
First, is the outlet pipe welded inside or outside?
It looks like there is no taper at the bottom legs, correct?
You didn't mention where you got the stove from or what part of NY you're from.
I've seen NY and NJ stoves stamped on the back at top corner with NY#xxxxxx as the stove number. PA stoves will have a PA and number in weld on the bottom.
If it has never left your state, chances are it was built by Fisher Stoves 4075 New Court, Syracuse NY. A google web search shows a street view of the existing building.



It's not difficult to reduce clearance. It's all about air cooling the wall with an approved heat shield that uses 1 inch air space between the non-combustible shield and wall.
It starts with 36 inches to combustible without shielding.
3 1/2 thick brick in direct contact with combustible wall allows 33% reduction, or down to 24 inches.
A shield built to NFPA 211 specs for unlisted stoves allows 66% reductio, down to 12 inches. That 12 inch is the minimum, no matter what else you do.
Start here; https://www.hearth.com/articles/wood-stove-wall-clearances-primer/

If you set cement board on a few bricks to raise it from floor, this gives an air intake at the bottom. UL stove board can be used, or make your own and face it with stone, tile, brick, anything non-combustible. Heated air rises behind the shield exiting the open top, keeping the wall cool. Do not have any ceramic or spacers that support shield in the centerline of stove. The clearance measurement is to wall, not shield. The size of the shield must be so that no measurement from stove to combustible material is 36 inches in any direction.


Reducing clearance can then cause single wall pipe clearance issue that requires 18 inches, or use close clearance double wall pipe that is tested down to 6 inch clearance.
Ask before you do, it's not difficult to achieve.

Keep your floor protection large enough to cover 18 inches in all directions. The thickness and material can get complicated. It changes for stove models, leg length, etc. Air can be used as the best insulator, or generally double 1/2 inch cement board covered with the same non-combustible material as used for shield is used. The floor protection is more complicated than wall shielding.

 

[tsimms]

Thanks again!
Man, lots to learn here.

I bought the stove from Philadelphia area. I don't know if that's where it was originally from. I'll check to see if there's any identification on it.

I can see I'm going to have alot of questions for you guys.

Thank you so much!

 

[bholler]

Thanks again!
Man, lots to learn here.

I bought the stove from Philadelphia area. I don't know if that's where it was originally from. I'll check to see if there's any identification on it.

I can see I'm going to have alot of questions for you guys.

Thank you so much!

If you want to burn with the doors open you will need 8" chimney. Again another reason to consider a modern stove with a glass door that actually stays clean. And no need to sheild anything they already have reduced clearances.

 

[bholler]

Sometimes the fire is better to watch than TV.
Welcome to the forum, let us know the progress and any questions.

I know it's hard to find a Grandma or Grandpa with glass, but that's my preference.
@AeroScout just installed an Insert in Texas before the deep freeze there that got them though a tough time with a 6 inch liner. His is a Series IV with glass. It will be interesting to see how well the air wash works with reduced flue in his case. They were able to keep their home at 70* f during 0* weather with no power for 3 days, and cook. Something you can't do with the newer Inserts that are all flush mounted in the fireplace!

Not true at all many many new inserts work just fine at maintaining temps with no blower. Many are not flush and even some flush ones still work fine without the blower

 

[AeroScout]

Not true at all many many new inserts work just fine at maintaining temps with no blower. Many are not flush and even some flush ones still work fine without the blower

Can you cook on them?

 

[bholler]

Can you cook on them?

Yeah of course

 

[tsimms]

I took a look at the stove. It looks like it sa PA underneath. Almost looks like it was done in chalk or something. Didn't look like it was welded in. It was hard to tell. Stove is still loaded on my trailer

 

[tsimms]

Can you cook on them?

Now that is cool. I'm going to have to try that when I get mine installed.

 

[coaly]

Yeah of course

Here is the advert with this Regency pictured;

"Enjoy beautiful wood heat in your medium sized living areas with the Classic Medium Wood Insert. This unit also offers a large cooktop surface that you can use to cook meals on even during power outages. This Regency Insert is ready to install and fits easily into your existing fireplace. Increase the value of your home and decrease your monthly heating bill."

Here's a real 283 square inch cook top for power outages. 13.5 X 21

 

[coaly]

Now that is cool. I'm going to have to try that when I get mine installed.

That was in reference to cooking on a Fisher Insert where new units have little to no cook top.

Yours will get hotter on the upper top with no baffle installed. The front is considered the simmer burner for stews and keeping a tea kettle hot. With a baffle plate installed the front gets hotter than the rear, so cooking is reversed.
The issue cooking on a wood stove is they cook your legs standing close to them for any amount of time compared to a cookstove being built to prevent heat from cooking you.
There are waffle irons, toasters, coffee pots, even stove top ovens for stove top cooking.

 

[tsimms]

Does the floor require the 1" air gap? Or can I build it up over the top of my floor with no air gap?

I'm looking at some cultured stone that I like. Will that be ok to use for the walls?
Any specific criteria for cultured stone?