Purchasing new stove. Would like advice. on Jotul Oslo vs Firelight.

[Joe Matthews]

Hi,
I have been lurking for a while and reading an awful lot on here for a while and finally decided to sign up. This site has a lot of valuable information, and lots of great members who seem willing to help. I am in the middle of a project where the steel zero clearance fireplace box and chimney pipe are being removed and replaced with a freestanding wood stove. This will be my first stove, but grew up in a house where we always had one. I have always missed having it and am excited to get it all ready for this winter. I have been in the house I currently live in since last november. It had the old firebox that had been converted to gas (propane) logs but they did not work. I never fixed them, because I planned to go the stove route when time and money allowed. The central heat is Propane, and I burned a lot! I am hoping to use the new stove to be the primary heat source for the house, and keep the thermostat low and use the forced air as supplemental heat. This past winter was cold in the house. It has lots of large windows, and the family room where the stove will be located has one wall that is almost entirely windows, making it the coolest room in the house. The family room, breakfast area and kitchen are all one area that is appx. 28' X 22'. The family room has a vaulted ceiling and it has 2 doorways out of it. One connects to 2 hallways, one that leads to the garage and one that leads past the stairs going to the upper and lower levels and ends in the living/ dining room areas. The other door leads directly from the kitchen into the living/dining room which has a vaulted 12 foot ceiling. Hopefully this rough drawing will give an idea of the layout:

The red rectangle is the stove site. The upper and lower levels are about 800-900 sq feet each. I would imagine that the stove would not help the lower level much, but since the steps leading up are so close, the upstairs would benefit. I also thought that the ceiling fans in the family room and in the kitchen would help move the heated air into the living/dining room. I am doubtful that the Master bed room would get much heat from the stove, but I have an oil filled electric radiator space heater that did a great job heating the area last winter, and planned to keep it in service this winter. I like a cooler BR anyhow.

My main question is if the Oslo or the Firelight would be best for my application. I really don't want a stove too large and hot for my family room, but I want to crank out some heat that will hopefully make it other places in the house. My layout would be fine with either the left or right load doors, and the larger overall dimensions of the firelight are not a problem either. The main attraction to me regarding the firelight is the longer burn times. A stove I could load before work and have it burn all day, and one I could load in the evening and make it till morning is very attractive to me. I have read about people choking them back to throttle down the heat output. Does the firelight respond well to this type of use with out the fire going out or causing other issues? Any suggestions or comments would be appreciated.

I also wanted to ask about the 3 way T that is to be installed in the stone wall that is to be constructed behind the stove. I was told that you have to use a T instead of a 90 there to catch any debris that may fall and collect which would become an obstruction and possible fire hazard. I understand their point. I was also told that I needed to construct an access door either in the outside of my chase, or in the stone wall behind the stove to allow access to the bottom of the T for cleaning purposes. Is this true? I have a friend who has a newer chimney that is the same set up as mine for the most part, and he has no access door. He cleans out his T every time he sweeps the chimney by removing the stove pipe to take outside for sweeping, and then he picks out any large chunks out of the T by hand and vacuums the rest. Is this not acceptable? I really do not want to have any doors I dont need. Thanks in advance for the help!

Regards,

Joe

 

[begreen]

Welcome Joe. It looks like the Oslo would be more than enough stove to heat this family room floor and some will get up the stairs. You are correct about none going downstairs. Though with your mild climate you might also want to consider a Woodstock Fireview or a Pacific Energy T5 for longer burns.

I'm not sure I understand the questions about the T. Will the flue be going straight up, inside the house, or will it be going out the wall and then up on the outside of the house?

 

[Joe Matthews]

In this link, if you look at the "type 2" diagram, you will see what I mean. My pipe will come up from the stove, and 90 to go into the wall. Inside the wall the pipe then needs to 90 again to head up the chimney chase, but they tell me you must have a T to catch any debris falling. I can see how debris falling down the chimney would catch in this 90 and create a problem. The T is supposed to allow any debris to fall into the lower leg where it will not cause problems. This T has a cap that can be opened to let any material fall out of the bottom for cleaning. I do not understand why it is necessary to clean this T from the bottom. The friend I mentioned above manages to clean his just fine by removing the stove pipe, which is an easy enough task. Thanks for the answer on the stove!





https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/installing_a_woodstove

 

[Dexter]

Hi Joe:

take a look at the following recent thread. The firelight, of course, is bigger, but F-500 owners rave about the output of their stoves. I put in my 2 cents worth in that thread.

Search this forum for "Jotul F 500 Oslo vs Jotul F 600 Firelight". Use the Search Forum box at the top of the page.

It is hard to judge from you drawing how well the airflow will spread heat through your house. Ceiling fans -- even portable box fans -- can make a big difference. I heat about 2000 sq. ft. with my Firelight very well, but we have a multi-level with open ledges between levels; the hot air flows across the ceiling, then goes up.

Regards,

Dexter

 

[begreen]

In this link, if you look at the "type 2" diagram, you will see what I mean. My pipe will come up from the stove, and 90 to go into the wall. Inside the wall the pipe then needs to 90 again to head up the chimney chase, but they tell me you must have a T to catch any debris falling. I can see how debris falling down the chimney would catch in this 90 and create a problem. The T is supposed to allow any debris to fall into the lower leg where it will not cause problems. This T has a cap that can be opened to let any material fall out of the bottom for cleaning. I do not understand why it is necessary to clean this T from the bottom. The friend I mentioned above manages to clean his just fine by removing the stove pipe, which is an easy enough task. Thanks for the answer on the stove!

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/installing_a_woodstove

I think I understand now. Is there an existing bumpout where the old zc fireplace was installed and are you using this as a chase for the new class A flue system? If that is the case, yes, you will want an access panel on the outside to get at the bottom of the tee.

 

[Joe Matthews]

Yes. The old fireplace box was removed along with all pipe. It is now an empty framed chase that is split half out past the exterior wall of the house, and half extends in over the wall. Basically the pipe will go up on the same plane as the outside wall of the house. They did a poor job building it originally and I need to beef it up and repair leaks, but that is a different story. Why does this T require an access door to clean it when cleaning can be done by removing the pipe inside the house?

 

[Dexter]

And that tee, BTW, makes it MUCH, easier to clean the chimney with minimal mess to the living area of the house. Once you push the crud through the horizontal to the tee, you can clean the chimney from the top or bottom while the opening to the living area is completely covered.

Dexter

 

[begreen]

It is sooo much easier to run the brush up and down the straight vertical section of classA pipe. Having good access top and bottom makes a big difference in ease of cleaning.

 

[firefighterjake]

Random thoughts . . .

Welcome to the forum . . .

As for the stove pick . . . based on the house lay-out and size and your climate I'm thinking the Oslo would be more than enough stove for what you want . . . the Firelight may be a little too big. As for the long burns . . . the Oslo (and most other stoves) will give you a long burn time . . . but don't expect to get the fire going in the morning and then come home 8 or 9 hours later to find the fire still blazing . . . although more realistically you should have enough coals (depending on how much wood was in the stove, type of wood (in terms of size, seasoning and species and how you run the stove) to get the fire going again in short order.

Here's my situation . . . do you really need a Firelight . . . well I live in a 1,800 square two-story Cape built in the 1970s in central Maine . . . 2 of the 3 exterior walls are 2 x 4 construction (house was built in the 1970s) and insulation is moderate . . . floor plan is semi-open . . . the Oslo is installed on an exterior wall . . . and for the past two years I have used very little heating oil to keep the entire house warm . . . in terms of long burns . . . I usually do my final re-load around 9 or 9:30 p.m. and when I wake up around 5:30 a.m. (8 hours later) there is usually enough coals so that I only have to toss some kindling on to get the fire back up and running (my wife who is more patient sometimes doesn't even bother with the kindling -- she just puts on some small splits) . . . and the house has stayed warm throughout the night . . . the exception being some of those very cold, sub-zero nights when the boiler kicks on a half hour to an hour before I get up.

Correcting a mistaken assumption . . . many folks think that these EPA stoves work the same way as the pre-EPA stoves do . . . with pre-EPA stoves if you wanted less heat you dialed back the air control which would allow less oxygen into the fire which would cause it to slow down in the burning process and in some cases just smolder . . . good if your goal was to prolong the burning process or create excessive creosote, but not so good if your goal was to produce lots of good, meaningful heat in a clean and efficient manner. When you dial back the air with an EPA stove (once it has reached hot enough temps) what happens is just the opposite -- typically dialing back the air will lead secondary burners like the Oslo and Firelight to go from a "free burning state" to having secondary combustion . . . which means in essence you are reburning the smoke and now extracting more heat out of the fire. This is good though . . . it means you are burning cleanly and more efficiently and you get some decently long burn times . . . but to just recap . . . with an EPA stove typically dialing back the air = more heat not less heat. The way to control the heat output with secondary burning stoves is usually done with the fuel loads -- if you want less heat you don't burn a full firebox of wood and you don't put in your "good" wood like oak, sugar maple, locust, etc. . . . . instead you may only do a half load and it may be a load of softwood or some chunks.

Moving the heat . . . having ceiling fans in the kitchen and family room will help move the heat . . . especially if you can reverse the fan as some folks here do. Another way to move the heat throughout the house efficiently is to place a floor fan (like you would buy at Walmart or any other department store) in the doorway of the kitchen/living room . . . have the fan facing the room with the stove . . . this sets up an artificial air current which will blow the cooler air which is at the floor level towards the hot stove . . . stove heats the air . . . hot air rises and moves into the area where the cooler air was . . . sounds stupidly simple . . . but it works . . . and works well. I suspect using the floor fan and ceiling fans will allow you to not only heat the second floor (as the heat will naturally rise up the stairs as it does in my house), but you will also be able to heat most of -- if not the entire -- house in this manner.

Moving the Heat . . . Part II . . . your master bedroom may be cooler as you have surmised. Like you my master bedroom is located the furthest away from the stove (well that and my second bathroom/mudroom/laundry room/boiler room) . . . however by using the fans I get enough heat to make the master bedroom tolerable . . . it is cooler than the rest of the house (and I like it that way), but it is not at all to the point where I would say it is cold or frigid. I do however use an electric space heater in my bathroom/boiler room -- ironically enough I use the heater to insure the pipes in the room with the boiler do not freeze . . . probably not needed . . . but it's on a thermostat and it makes me more confident that I will not have to deal with freezing pipes.

Placement of the stove . . . generally the best place for a stove is a central location . . . or at least where you spend most of the time. I hope and trust that your family probably spends most of the time in the family room vs. the living room . . . if so . . . that is good . . . this is where most of the heat will be . . . and you will find yourself drawn to the stove like a moth to a flame . . . it's inevitable . . . the sights, sounds and smells have a real appeal . . . not to mention that wonderful warmth.

From your description it sounds like you will have a T-section outside . . . but in an enclosed chase . . . if so this should work well for you. It will make cleaning your chimney a breeze . . . and if there is enough room you may even be able to clean your chimney yourself . . . from the top . . . or the bottom. I have a T-section outside and it is great -- 3 screws removed and I can quickly check the condition of my chimney and in another 10-15 minutes I can sweep out my chimney without needing a ladder.

 

[CJRages]

Yes. The old fireplace box was removed along with all pipe. It is now an empty framed chase that is split half out past the exterior wall of the house, and half extends in over the wall. Basically the pipe will go up on the same plane as the outside wall of the house. They did a poor job building it originally and I need to beef it up and repair leaks, but that is a different story. Why does this T require an access door to clean it when cleaning can be done by removing the pipe inside the house?

Joe,

I think you are off to a great start! A couple months ago I removed the old ZC fireplace and pipe from our home's exterior chase. Since then I have installed 20 ft of class a stainless double wall chimney down to a T and into the lower level of our 2000 s.f. split foyer style home. The hardest part is the planning and set up in getting through the wall. Achieving a plumb, level and centered installation takes patience and careful planning. I'm sure you will be able to figure it all out. Keep asking questions - we will be glad to assist you however we can.

My wife and I settled on the Oslo, It is sitting in the basement now but we don't have any experience running it yet! Looking forward to the first fire. AM finishing up the surround tile work, etc right now.

 

[Joe Matthews]

Thanks for all the responses. After reading on here I decided I had better go with the Oslo. I went and and ordered it on Saturday. I am not sure when it will be available for pick up yet, but their distributor usually has a bunch in stock so they say. I am going to pick it up from the distributor to save the delivery charge to the store. I would have to drive 30 minutes to the store anyhow, so why not drive 30 more and save 120 bucks, right? Anyhow, I also got the blue/black enamel because everyone on here and 2 different places I spoke with recommended it. I am from the camp that a stove should be black, but it's black enough to suit me just fine. More to come....

 

[firefighterjake]

Congrats JM on the stove purchase . . . and another blue black enamel buyer . . . yeah . . . I still kick myself every time I see another person order one of these since it is one of my few -- if only -- regrets in buying the Oslo. Again, congrats on the purchase . . . enjoy the heat.

 

[RSNovi]

Thanks for all the responses. After reading on here I decided I had better go with the Oslo. I went and and ordered it on Saturday. I am not sure when it will be available for pick up yet, but their distributor usually has a bunch in stock so they say. I am going to pick it up from the distributor to save the delivery charge to the store. I would have to drive 30 minutes to the store anyhow, so why not drive 30 more and save 120 bucks, right? Anyhow, I also got the blue/black enamel because everyone on here and 2 different places I spoke with recommended it. I am from the camp that a stove should be black, but it's black enough to suit me just fine. More to come....

I ordered mine on a Friday and the stove came in on the next truck which was the following Wednesday here in Michigan. Same blue/black Oslo that you ordered.

 

[Joe Matthews]

Looking forward to getting it all installed. Due to the holiday, they were unable to tell me when it would be available. Hope to find out more tomorrow and am hoping it will be available for pick up on friday. I was held up a bit waiting on a shipment of a bunch of chimney pipe componets, but it finally arrived today. Had a few more items to sort out within the chase, and will begin getting the chimney flue installed tomorrow night. They put no bracing under one side of this chase. One side is supported by the wall, and the other side is tied into the roof decking directly between 2 trusses and thats it! It was pretty shaky. It is amazing how crapy of a job some people will do. I got a bottle jack up there and jacked a couple of 4X4 braces into place and it is lots better now. Will also install a few diagonal braces inside it, and have installed ladder rungs to provide easy access in the future if needed. Will start a post with photos of my install. My girl has been photographing the progress, so I will get the pics loaded up eventually...

 

[firefighterjake]

Looking forward to getting it all installed. Due to the holiday, they were unable to tell me when it would be available. Hope to find out more tomorrow and am hoping it will be available for pick up on friday. I was held up a bit waiting on a shipment of a bunch of chimney pipe componets, but it finally arrived today. Had a few more items to sort out within the chase, and will begin getting the chimney flue installed tomorrow night. They put no bracing under one side of this chase. One side is supported by the wall, and the other side is tied into the roof decking directly between 2 trusses and thats it! It was pretty shaky. It is amazing how crapy of a job some people will do. I got a bottle jack up there and jacked a couple of 4X4 braces into place and it is lots better now. Will also install a few diagonal braces inside it, and have installed ladder rungs to provide easy access in the future if needed. Will start a post with photos of my install. My girl has been photographing the progress, so I will get the pics loaded up eventually...

I hear you about contractors . . . we paid quite a bit of money to some contractors to jack our house and fix a front wall . . . some work was done well . . . other work . . . well my wife and I spent quite a bit of time fixing some of their mistakes and fixing the work they were supposed to do.

As for the pics . . . post away . . . we like pictures.