Re: Not sure if I've seen this question asked . . . treating non-ethanol gas

[firefighterjake]

I know we've had ethanol vs. non-ethanol gas debates . . . debates on what to use on the non-ethanol gas to keep it from separating . . . and debates on the merits of non-ethanol canned gas sold by dealers.

Not sure if anyone has ever mentioned what one should use, if anything, as a gas treatment for non-ethanol fuel. I know in the old days we used to use Stabil . . .

For the first time in a very long time a relatively local (20-25 minutes away) gas station is selling non-ethanol, premium gas. While I've never really minded the ethanol gas, if I have a choice I think I would rather burn the non-ethanol gas in my small engines . . . but was wondering if I should treat it in any way as I would most likely take several cans and stock up on it so I'm not making the trek there every other week.

 

[Sodbuster]

I only burn non-ethanol in my small two strokes, saws, trimmers etc. Never have treated that, with anything. And to be honest I've never really had the problems others have experienced with ethanol fuel. I'm lucky enough to have a pump about 10 minutes from the house though, so I can always keep it fresh. I hurt my arm and have been out of commission for a couple months, so the 2 stroke I have mixed up now will get dumped in my truck and I'll get fresh, when I start cutting in November.

 

[Jan Pijpelink]

Let me chime in as a petroleum chemist. Gasoline (ethanol/non ethanol) stays "fresh" for about 28 days. After that some of the over 350 different hydrocarbons in gasoline start to break down, causing potential problems for starting engines etc. If you plan to stock up, I recommend to use a good commercially available treatment product. "Old" gasoline (non treated) can be the cause of contaminating the carburetor of your engine.

 

[Sodbuster]

Let me chime in as a petroleum chemist. Gasoline (ethanol/non ethanol) stays "fresh" for about 28 days. After that some of the over 350 different hydrocarbons in gasoline start to break down, causing potential problems for starting engines etc. If you plan to stock up, I recommend to use a good commercially available treatment product. "Old" gasoline (non treated) can be the cause of contaminating the carburetor of your engine.

Thanks Jan, any products better than others? When I hear commercially available I think supply house not Home Depot.

 

[Jan Pijpelink]

Thanks Jan, any products better than others? When I hear commercially available I think supply house not Home Depot.

Any good auto parts store will have it. I use STP myself. I have several large quantities gasoline for snow blower, mower, etc. Never had a problem.

 

[Jan Pijpelink]

I have to add that I only add the treatment solvent when I put the gasoline in the tank of the machine or if the engine has not been used for a long time and still has gasoline in it. To add the treatment solvent into the gasoline for storage will not help much.

 

[firefighterjake]

Jan . . . how long does the canned gas from dealers last out of curiousity? I was under the assumption that it had a much longer storage life . . . is this due to added fuel stabilizers?

 

[Jan Pijpelink]

Canned gas has special stabilizers added after blending at the refinery. Those are not stabilizers we can buy at any store. This gas can last for months. Often used by the military.

 

[firefighterjake]

Canned gas has special stabilizers added after blending at the refinery. Those are not stabilizers we can buy at any store. This gas can last for months. Often used by the military.

Drats . . .

Thanks for the answers to my questions.

 

[Mike M.]

Jan - what do they add to the northern "winter gas"?

I think that the no ethanol gas still has plenty of ethanol. I always run about 3-5 gallons no ethanol from the pump in the truck before ever filling a small engine container with non ethanol. Otherwise you are getting a half gallon or more of whatever the last guy pumped. Some good you tube videos of aviation guys separating ethanol from fuel are out there.

Sent from my SM-G900R6 using Tapatalk

 

[Jan Pijpelink]

Jan - what do they add to the northern "winter gas"?

I think that the no ethanol gas still has plenty of ethanol. I always run about 3-5 gallons no ethanol from the pump in the truck before ever filling a small engine container with non ethanol. Otherwise you are getting a half gallon or more of whatever the last guy pumped. Some good you tube videos of aviation guys separating ethanol from fuel are out there.

Sent from my SM-G900R6 using Tapatalk

The difference in summer gasoline and winter gasoline is 5% propane. They add 5% propane to summer gasoline to make it winter gasoline. That is done at the refinery. In a cold winter, summer gas will not start your engine. You can see some price drops in March and November. In March gas stations switch to summer gasoline and in November to winter gasoline.

 

[maple1]

I have to add that I only add the treatment solvent when I put the gasoline in the tank of the machine or if the engine has not been used for a long time and still has gasoline in it. To add the treatment solvent into the gasoline for storage will not help much.

I must be misunderstanding. Why won't adding stablizer (or whatever) for storage help. Isn't that the primary use?

 

[Jan Pijpelink]

I must be misunderstanding. Why won't adding stablizer (or whatever) for storage help. Isn't that the primary use?

The chemicals in the treatment liquid will eventually break down and be less effective. IMO it is better to add them to "old" gasoline shortly before use to "refresh" the gasoline. Every man made mix of chemicals will eventually break down after certain time, only water doesn't. But, if you ask 10 experts you might get 10 different opinions.

 

[StihlKicking]

I use the STIHL ultra 2 stroke oil, which has stabilizers in it. I haven’t had any 2 stroke ethanol problems in about 9 years.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[jetsam]

I have to add that I only add the treatment solvent when I put the gasoline in the tank of the machine or if the engine has not been used for a long time and still has gasoline in it. To add the treatment solvent into the gasoline for storage will not help much.

Some products seem to advise the opposite (https://www.goldeagle.com/brands/sta-bil-faqs for example). Are they a different kind of product? That one claims that it won't help to add it after storage but that the gas can go for 2 years if it's pre-treated.

 

[Jan Pijpelink]

Some products seem to advise the opposite (https://www.goldeagle.com/brands/sta-bil-faqs for example). Are they a different kind of product? That one claims that it won't help to add it after storage but that the gas can go for 2 years if it's pre-treated.

Interesting. I will try something out and take a few samples to our lab for analyses. Thanks for sharing.

 

[maple1]

Some products seem to advise the opposite (https://www.goldeagle.com/brands/sta-bil-faqs for example). Are they a different kind of product? That one claims that it won't help to add it after storage but that the gas can go for 2 years if it's pre-treated.

That was my understanding as well, hence my question above. Maybe this is a 'stablizer' vs. 'booster/other treatment' semantics thing.

Stihl (maybe others too) mixing oil has stabilizer already added. So when you mix it , you are essentially pre-treating. I have never had bad-gas issues using their oil, and leaving it sit after being mixed for months at a time. And I use Stabil in all my 4 stroke gas tanks before putting them away at the end of their operating season - no fuel issues at the start of the next season.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Only thing iv noticed is my older equipment starts and runs everytime in spring, and the newer stuff i have trouble with. Not sure why.

 

[maple1]

Only thing iv noticed is my older equipment starts and runs everytime in spring, and the newer stuff i have trouble with. Not sure why.

That could be because newer stuff is trying to run cleaner, i.e. leaner. Therefore smaller jet passages. Which would gum up easier with fuel degradation. Maybe also combined with newer fuel formulations - e.g. addition of alcohol - which might have some impact on the rate of fuel degradation? Guessing at the latter, pretty sure (but still speculating) on the former.