Rebuilding Defiant Encore (Still!)- Is it time to cut my loss?

[homebrewz]

I tried everything that everyone suggested, except for the candle wax. Nothing would budge those bolts. I even slotted them with my dremmel tool to make them accept a flathead screwdriver.

I just drilled them out.

At least now I have a bunch of new socket fittings and a cool MAPP torch..

 

[drizler]

At least you have the torch. If its one of the piezo lighting swirl types its hot enough that you can just use propane and save the MAPP for those particular jobs. I use one of those to light off the pellets to start my corn stove. Once you have one of those its time to toss out the old scratch start torch head. I must use mine at least once a day, more like twice in the spring and fall and a tank still lasts 4 or 5 months. Great investment.

 

[elkimmeg]

All the bolts I have taken out of VC stoves are common bolts not hardened. Once you drill them, the sockets have to be re tapped ,
sometimes the net larger bolt and tap. All depends on if the damaging the initial threads if not too bad then the same size tap if damaged too much the next size up

 

[seaken]

Now you know why I charge $500 to rebuild a stove. But I still think you will come out okay if you stick with it and rebuild that stove properly. Once it is done it will operate as a new stove.

I found it amusing to read all the ideas on how to extract a bolt. If I went through all that trouble I'd have to charge $2000 or more to rebuild (taking three days to do what should take five minutes). Sorry to sound condescending. No offense meant. But it really is not that complicated. Just drill out the bolt, tap it, and move on.

To drill out a bolt - grind or file to a smooth flat surface, center punch the bolt (in the center of the bolt - of course), use 13/64" stainless steel drill (for 1/4-20 bolts, the most common, or use appropriate size drill for another size bolt) and drill out the bolt. Careful not to go too far if on an exposed casting. A drill stop may be useful - I use a peice of masking tape. Tap the hole with a flat bottom tap and cutting oil. Insert new bolt. Done.

If you end up off center you can open up the hole on the mating peice and use a washer. Or, use a heli-coil.

Rebuilding an Encore should not take more than about four or five hours. If you are a novice, it may take a full day. If you've got the time, you can save the $500 you'de pay a professional stove rebuilder. But even if you have to hire a guy like me to rebuild your Encore, and end up paying $1000-$1200 for parts and labor, you'll still end up with a good stove for half the cost of a new one.

 

[begreen]

Exactly my experience. I'm glad I got advice from a seasoned stove rebuilder before tackling the job. I had a couple new drill bits and a tap + new bolts ready to go before I started. Bolt broke off, no big deal, I was ready for it. Although I had allowed a whole day for the job, it was done in about 4 hrs. However, the 602 was a bit simpler stove to work on.

 

[GVA]

Now you know why I charge $500 to rebuild a stove. But I still think you will come out okay if you stick with it and rebuild that stove properly. Once it is done it will operate as a new stove.

I found it amusing to read all the ideas on how to extract a bolt. If I went through all that trouble I'd have to charge $2000 or more to rebuild (taking three days to do what should take five minutes). Sorry to sound condescending. No offense meant. But it really is not that complicated. Just drill out the bolt, tap it, and move on.

To drill out a bolt - grind or file to a smooth flat surface, center punch the bolt (in the center of the bolt - of course), use 13/64" stainless steel drill (for 1/4-20 bolts, the most common, or use appropriate size drill for another size bolt) and drill out the bolt. Careful not to go too far if on an exposed casting. A drill stop may be useful - I use a peice of masking tape. Tap the hole with a flat bottom tap and cutting oil. Insert new bolt. Done.

If you end up off center you can open up the hole on the mating peice and use a washer. Or, use a heli-coil.

Rebuilding an Encore should not take more than about four or five hours. If you are a novice, it may take a full day. If you've got the time, you can save the $500 you'de pay a professional stove rebuilder. But even if you have to hire a guy like me to rebuild your Encore, and end up paying $1000-$1200 for parts and labor, you'll still end up with a good stove for half the cost of a new one.

well i've never had a bolt defeat me and extraction is a pretty common practice in my biz. The only problem that i have with drilling it out is the person using the drill needs to keep it running straight and true. A helicoil is not good to put into anything less than about 3/8" thick. And if one goes off center while drilling, the piece being bolted on usually wont line up with the holes anymore you can't use a washer on a countersunk bolt, on a counterbore bolt you can.
We were just trying to give him the most basic non damaging tips on how to remove them.

At least I didn't mention how to blow out a bolt using oxy acetylene :cheese:

 

[drizler]

Easy outs work but can be a real PITA and that goes double for the smaller ones. Drilling is also darned hard with the smaller ones as well since keeping the drill straight is such a pain. You often just end up drillling it out anyways and with a busted easy out in there you can be pretty much screwed. They do make a special arc weld rod made especially for removing what you can't get at to get ahold of. Thats another option but still in the end you will probably be better just drilling it out and retapping to a larger size. The larger size is also a biproduct of drilling those smaller bolts unfortunately. Oversize is no crime as long as there is enough meat to work with.
When you put that back together use some nice hardened bolts instead of that hardware store grade 2 "cheese " that the manufacturer uses. Grade 5 minimum, grade 8 is better. You won't break the head off those even 30 years later. I have grade 8 all over my 1949 dozer and most I don't even bother replacing. Strangely they don't tend to break off or get stuck easily.

 

[elkimmeg]

I use stainless steel bolts they don't rust in and they are harder

 

[GVA]

I use stainless steel bolts they don't rust in and they are harder

and the stainless bolts harden more with heat too. ;-)

 

[homebrewz]

I did purchase SS bolts for replacement parts, so no worries there.

Easy outs are pretty much useless in this situation. They seem to be only good if you have a broken bolt that has little resistance to being taken out. These bolts were really stuck. Naturally, I bought an easy-out before I found this out.