Refurbish old VC Defiant Encore or new stove?

[buol]

hi, first post, but have been reading here a lot. great info, great humor. we moved to a log home at about 6500' last fall which has an old stove we used last yr (1st use of a wood stove, a learning experience). had to replace worn gaskets etc. i recently found the manual and specs for this and am wondering, after reading posts here, if we do or do not need to replace it. what we have is:

vermont casting defiant encore catalytic from late 1980's. the specs say it is 15D x 26H x 27W, weighs 350#, takes 20" logs, heats to 1900 sf, 47,000BTU, efficiency 77%, burns to 10 hrs, emissions 1.6 gm/hr, firebox 2.3'. the hearth it sits on is 39 x 35 stone.

we burn a lot of wood, lot of dead aspen/hawthorn/pine. my guess is that the catalytic element has probably never been cleaned or replaced, probably nonfunctional; the windows get filthy immediately. in the pic you can see a piece of the upper inner glass on the left is missing.

the specs seem to read quite good for an old stove (if you can rely on them), so i'm wondering if (assuming parts can be located) it would be better/easier/cheaper to stay with this one...or at least give it a try before switching to a newer stove. or are the newer ones that much better than this (optimized)? one element that factors in to any possible replacement is the fairly tight space constraint and that this one loads from the front and top, which is convenient. the sides are very limited. any thoughts yea or nay on how to proceed would be much appreciated. thanks.

buol

i apologize. couldn't figure out how to get these 3 images of the stove and setting into the post!! again, sorry!!

(broken link removed to http://picasaweb.google.com/b.heslin/RecentlyUpdated#5417402123509140370)

 

[SolarAndWood]

Welcome and beautiful home/stove. How big is the house and is your goal to heat exclusively with wood?

 

[buol]

thanks for the quick reply!! the first floor of the house, where the stove sits in about the center on one wall is about 1000', 500 of which is cathedral ceiling with stairs going up to a mezzanine and the bedroom beyond. this area and the open kitchen under the mezzanine on the other side of the stove (also about 500') mostly heats well with the stove. the kitchen and a room of about 900' beyond it have auxiliary electric forced heat, which it needs a little of. the rest of the house has some baseboard but is minimally used except when it gets really cold/windy. we like to use the stove heat essentially for everything possible. a further part of the upstairs that extends over the garage stays somewhat colder unless we use a little baseboard when we need to use that area. not a problem.

 

[Oldlogdog]

Ironic, I made my first post today also. Have been burning close to the same stove for only 30 days. Mine is an 0028 I found about 1.5 years ago. It had never been fired.

I am very pleased so far. The cat seems to work great. No problems with dirty glass; and I am getting long burn times. I am burning well seasoned oak, 2 yrs, 15 to 18% moisture.

Guess the problem is the cost of parts from VC. I had to replace a few (due to rust) and they were very expensive. From what I have read here I would probably be looking at a new stove if
you have to replace many parts. I invested very little in the stove so a few new parts didn't bother me.

 

[SolarAndWood]

I warped both of mine within 2 years trying to heat our similar sized house. Many here are happy with them but I would look for a bigger stove for what you are trying to accomplish.

 

[elmoleaf]

If you keep burning it, make sure it's safely installed. Check the manual for the installation requirements for that stove. It appears very close to the walls, which look to be stone simply butted to the wood construction behind. Stone will transfer all the heat directly to the wood...it has no insulation value.
Also, the hearth area in front of the stove looks small.

 

[buol]

elmoleaf, you've got sharp eyes and you're right. i checked the specs and the distances to the river rock are half what they should be, though i've been feeling both the rock directly behind it and the wood at the ends. the rock doesn't get too hot and the wood not at all, but of course that's not the wood right behind the stove. the river rock and the mortar it sits in are 5-6" thick. what would the best way to measure the rock temperature be, infrared? i'll monitor it and report back on that. the hearth in front also should be 16" and is only 7". when i had a chimney sweep out to clean the creosote out he thought the installation was ok, but obviously it's not to spec.

oldlogdog, that's a pretty stove. can't believe it had never been fired!

so for sure if we considered going to a larger stove, as solarandwind said, we'd have to extend the hearth some, and there's room for that. i think it would be worth putting in a new catalyst and see how that goes, but they're real pricey. $293 for a "ceramic catalyst" and $457 for a "metalic ceramic catalyst". does anyone know what the difference is??

thanks for the input. the topics in this forum are very informative.

 

[Redburn]

There cheaper combusters online ..... Stovecombustors Online Store is one so look around ... If it hasn't been cleaned in a while take apart the fire back and look in there be careful when handling the combuster box it tends to break down over time and could be fragile . Air flow is needed for this stove to run right and there could be allot of ash restricting the air flow back there check the gaskets also that seals the fireback to the combustion chamber ...... and check for warping .... let us know how you make out ......

 

[SolarAndWood]

so for sure if we considered going to a larger stove, as solarandwind said, we'd have to extend the hearth some, and there's room for that. i think it would be worth putting in a new catalyst and see how that goes, but they're real pricey. $293 for a "ceramic catalyst" and $457 for a "metalic ceramic catalyst".

Sounds like you are going through the same thought process I did. I did it both ways. The first time, I found a rebuilt stove cheaper than I could get cheaper than the parts for my first one. But, same result with that stove. The second time, I did the BK with the bigger firebox and simpler design. I know what I would do if I had to put $300+ into that stove and there was a 30% tax credit sitting out there for a replacement. If your goal was just ambience and and space heat, I might consider putting some money into your current stove.

Also, you will be surprised with some of the minimal clearances required with some of the bigger stoves. For example, the BK Ultra is much less restrictive than the Encore was and has almost twice as big an effective firebox size. And, just spark protection for the floor if you did have to extend the hearth.

 

[firefighterjake]

If I was to buy a new stove today I wouldn't go with a VC . . . if I needed to totally refurbish a VC today I would buy new . . . but that said, it sounds as if the stove heated the house OK last year, it sounds like there are no major parts that need to be replaced . . . if this is the case and you're able to pick up a new cat for not a lot of money I would probably go that route.

 

[buol]

i'll look on the web for some combustor source alternatives and maybe tomorrow pull the unit and see if it's intact and blow it out w/the compressor. i'll also look into the clearances of some of the newer units if they're tighter and we end up going that route. for now, tho the tax credit is tempting, if it's just replacing or cleaning a combustor and a few gaskets, maybe that will make the most sense if we can find a decent price. anyway, looks like the pres is going to keep the tax credit going on this.

i think i'll be hanging out reading here a lot (!), so i picked a 'screen name' and a 'signature'. thanks for all the help. i'll report back.

had a calf somehow fall down a cistern last night and just hauled him out with a rope and the loader....another day, another rodeo....

 

[buol]

the replacement cat at stovecombustors site , made by clear skies, is $129, more reasonable. other sites were 190-200+, still much better than what i first saw. looking forward to getting a look inside.

 

[buol]

opened it up today and, no surprise, big mess, looks like it's never been done. here's the flue and cat before/after cleaning, about 2" ash everywhere, and creosote all up the chimney, despite real dry wood and a cleaning about 2 weeks ago. didn't bother to blow out the element, i'll replace it and if that doesn't make a big difference, then it's on to a new stove. i looked at the blaze king princess ultra witht the side shields, but the manual only seems to give clearances to combustibles. does anyone know how much the clearnaces would decrease with non-combustibles?

either way, this beats the hell out of pulling a cow up out of a well cistern room!

 

[fredarm]

either way, this beats the hell out of pulling a cow up out of a well cistern room!

Now that's a problem I've never had for sure! :lol:

 

[buol]

ordered a new cat, but couldnt wait for it as the temp is dropping fast here, so i hooked back up the cleaned out mess described above. holy moly, the stove is cranking w/the damper closed and thermostat on low w/the old trashed cat. ordered an ir temp after reading all the conflicting info on various magnetic reliability 'burn indicators'. right now my over thermometer reads 475+ lying on/partly touching the griddle. also, while i had it apart i cleaned the stack creosote from below..what a mess. just ordered a 'sooteater' to clean from below w/a drill..kind of like a weedwacker. can't wait now for the new cat to arrive. merry christmas all and thank you.