reluctant to install a franklin stove

[sootsme]

I've been asked to estimate the cost to line a chimney for venting a Franklin style stove (8 inch outlet) in a tall, old victorian home in Columbus, OH. On a clear day you can just make out the top of the chimney, jutting out of a 12/12 pitch asphalt (thank god) roof. Typical of houses this old, there is only an 8x8 flue tile affixed to the crown, with an unlined "flue" below that measuring approx. 9x9 inches dropping about 30 feet earthward to the old fireplace, where the franklin stove will be installed.

I hate installing liners in close quarters like this, especially since there is an offset involved. I just know I'll be sorry if I try to wedge an 8 inch stainless liner in there, not to mention the difficulty of ensuring that adequate amounts of poured-in insulation (thermix, for example) gets where it's supposed to go.

Downsizing the flue to a 7 in, or 7.5 in diameter liner would likely give me enough room for liner and insulation, but downsizing goes against everything I've learned about lining chimneys. I dislike franklin stoves anyway, but this customer seems determined to pursue the matter.

So, if I get some responses to this post, I'll show them to my customer, hopefully discouraging her from pressing on with this installation- or, with enough reasoned ecouragment, from you folks, I'll gather my climbing gear and install a smaller diameter liner.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

why a franklin stove? if going through the expense of installing a liner (they dont come from cracker jack's boxes) to put a franklin stove in? i'd recommend putting in something that will give a better return for the expense (kinda like building a race car engine and putting it in a yugo) the customer would get much better performance out of a modern high efficiency unit. maybe a nice VC , or jotul, PE , or if cost is a factor , maybe CFM or one of our englanders. any one of these brands will blow away a franklin (im assuming you are referring to the old franklin stoves , (open door, dump in wood, repeat) as far as output is concerned.

just my 2 cents

 

[kevinmoelk]

I was going to say the same thing stoveguy. Since you will be showing this thread to your customer fluebug, let me just say that I am SO GLAD I BOUGHT A NEWER STOVE. I had an old wood stove that probably would have worked fine. However, since hanging out around here and getting the very good advice from Elk, Tom Oyen, MSG, BeGreen, Roospike, Web, and many, many others I made a decision to find a newer stove. I was able to get a good deal in the used market, so proof positive that it's not impossible to find a good deal even in winter.

I remember old stoves and how they ATE wood and having the new stove now makes me feel like I'm driving a Ferrari. It's night and day difference in technology. I would give the same advice to your customer as I received here... look at a stove as a long term investment, buy a newer EPA stove, and dump the old stove. He/she will be far happier in the long run.

-Kevin

 

[GVA]

I was going to say the same thing stoveguy. Since you will be showing this thread to your customer fluebug, let me just say that I am SO GLAD I BOUGHT A NEWER STOVE. I had an old wood stove that probably would have worked fine. However, since hanging out around here and getting the very good advice from Elk, Tom Oyen, MSG, BeGreen, Roospike, Web, and many, many others I made a decision to find a newer stove. I was able to get a good deal in the used market, so proof positive that it's not impossible to find a good deal even in winter.

I remember old stoves and how they ATE wood and having the new stove now makes me feel like I'm driving a Ferrari. It's night and day difference in technology. I would give the same advice to your customer as I received here... look at a stove as a long term investment, buy a newer EPA stove, and dump the old stove. He/she will be far happier in the long run.

-Kevin

Wrench good post up till the ferrari....Those are gas guzzlers.... ;-)

 

[elkimmeg]

There is a code responsibility you face. If the stove was permitted and approved at some past time, then it is grandfathered and I supose one can install a liner.
If no existing permit exist to prove code compliant installation, then you become party of a non compliant installation. Something in a court of law ,you the professional, can not plead ignorant ,and should have know better. This being the case, it is not the position I would want to put myself in , should something happen with that stove

One you could require them to have it inspected and approved prior to taking on the Job. All stoves and appliances have to be labled and listed. One can not install an unlisted appliance nor should one be involved with any part of an installation of one.

I feel the reason you posted here, was you had doubts and suspected exactly what I said. To me some jobs are better not being done. than risking you liability and profession ,making an installation in this situation.

 

[BrotherBart]

fluebug I suspect that the customer wants the Franklin for its appearance to fit in in an older house. There are many stoves made today that will give the period appearance with much greater efficiency, and safety.

My first wood stove was a Franklin and I seriously don't know how I didn't burn that house down with that air leaking hunk of iron. Those stoves have two gears hotter than hell and melt down. From an efficiency stand point your customer would be better off putting a stainless fireplace type liner in that fireplace and just burning it open or with some of the glass doors available. Either way they are just going to be watching their wood investment fly up and out the flue.

I know. As people like to say been there, done that. You feel really good standing in front of a Franklin with it blasting away and the radiant heat coming off the front of those cast doors. For about thirty minutes per load of wood. Otherwise you have the doors open and the screen in place and it is just an open fireplace, that lets logs roll out and burn your very nice flooring into cinders. Done that too.

Ben was a great inventor. A few hundred years ago. A lot has been built on top of his work.

 

[kevinmoelk]

Wrench good post up till the ferrari....Those are gas guzzlers.... ;-)

A very valid point, LMAO, maybe I should have said a Prius or Aveo... but somehow that doesn't convey the way I feel about my new stove.

-Kevin

 

[webbie]

Yeah, the liner is going to be impossible to install correctly. Given the age of the home and an unlined chimney interior - the code would say that the liner should be insulated. That would be next to impossible with the larger flue sizes. If they really want the open fire look, many of the new Jotuls and VC's etc. have optional firescreens and most all take 6" pipe.

 

[sootsme]

Thanks, everyone, for your helpful responses. I doubt my customer paid too much for the old Franklin and, by showing her your collective advice, I should be able to convince her to go with a properly vented modern stove; I'll send her to some of the links found in your postings. Maybe the Franklin would make a nice (but rustprone) chimnea for her backyard...

 

[mmichaud]

The best thing I did was donate my old Franklin stove to the theatre department of the high school I do some work for. It is now used only as a heavy prop. Thanks to the great advice I received from the many members of the forum I was able to justify spending the money for a new efficient Jotul Castine. It is a great stove, not to mention I feel a lot safer using it. I also do not have to throw wood in by the arm full anymore to get heat out of it. My insurance company also likes it better since it is a listed stove. i have no regrets taking out the Franklin.

Mike