Replacing my Fisher papa bear

[45cheese]

Hello all! Thanks in advance for your help and knowledge.

I'm thinking about changing out my Fisher papa bear. I need help! I burn too much wood. The Fisher keeps the house plenty warm but I know I could do better.

My house is about 1700sf built in the 80s. the basement is unfinished but insulated. 4 ft knee walls are block and not in insulated yet. My chimney is about 22ft tall and I had a insulated 6in liner installed last December. Stove will be in the / is in the basement. I am located in northern WI. right by lake superior.

My question is for everybody is, what stove is recommended for a house my size with my flue size. The kicker is I have a lot of wood cut and split at about 20in. I want something that will have no trouble heating it in -30 weather for a few weeks on end and not rely an electricity. It will also be a main/supplementary source of heat.

Basically I'm looking for something that is dependable as my Fisher but way more efficient. Does it even exist? I'm not interested in cast iron or pretty trim. I'm looking for the perfect plate steel stove. Thanks!

 

[45cheese]

Edit: I have looked at the Bk kings and the flue is too big. The princess is too small to accept the wood I have. I don't think it will take a 20in split.

Lopi doesn't seem to give much as far as customer service or online ordering. Not sure about heat output or longetivity.

 

[begreen]

The long wood length will require a wider firebox stove like the Lopi Liberty. However, consider that you are probably going to have the stove a long time and the 20" requirement will go away as soon as the current stash is burned.

FWIW, the Princess firebox width is listed at 21 3/8" wide. Paging @Highbeam for verification on the fit of 20" wood in the Princess firebox.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I'd look at the PE Summit.


Its quite possible that a king would still draw with 22' of insulated 6" with that temp difference. Maybe somebody here has done it.

 

[jebatty]

Years ago by mistake I cut quite a batch of wood too long for my stove. Solution was to use that wood over time by fueling diagonal, which could take the longer length, and using with properly cut lengths as needed. Maybe not the best solution, but sure beat re-cutting those longer lengths.

 

[edyit]

have you looked at the englander line of stoves? the nc30 might be what you're looking for?

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Englander-2-400-sq-ft-Wood-Burning-Stove-30-NCH/100291302

spec says it takes 20" wood, there's enough people that own one here they would be able to answer that.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

It'll easily swallow 20".

I like my T5 much more than my 30 though.

 

[45cheese]

Thanks for the replies. I am looking for recommendations on stoves to research.

Who makes the T5?

 

[45cheese]

...nevermind. I found it. I wish they would list prices on these stoves.

 

[moresnow]

Drolet HT2000. I know its a very capable, long burning, reasonably priced model. 2 buddies have them. Very happy. Check the specs/price. It would be my choice if I didn't have a BK.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

The T5 is made by Pacific Energy and is their medium sized stove that's cast iron around a steel fire box. Without the cast iron it's known as the super 27. The Summit is larger and, when covered in cast iron, is known as the T6.

(broken link removed)


The Englander 30 is a good stove. I'm not going to knock it's performance.

 

[Highbeam]

The long wood length will require a wider firebox stove like the Lopi Liberty. However, consider that you are probably going to have the stove a long time and the 20" requirement will go away as soon as the current stash is burned.

FWIW, the Princess firebox width is listed at 21 3/8" wide. Paging @Highbeam for verification on the fit of 20" wood in the Princess firebox.

Ack! The stove is full of fire right now.

 

[tarzan]

On the Princess, the width is around 21 3/8" from firebrick to firebrick but the width between the firebrick retainers (above firebricks, the narrowest part) is approximately 20 1/2".

That being said, I wouldn't burn east/west in the Princess.

 

[kennyp2339]

I love my princes and burn ew ns, it really doesnt matter to me, I'm also on board with the Englander NC30, PE's and kumma's

 

[Highbeam]

...nevermind. I found it. I wish they would list prices on these stoves.

I live in a 1963 built 1700 SF home up in the higher elevations of western WA. I currently own a princess and an NC30 which I believe both should be high on your list. I didn't just find the stoves, I chose the best stoves for my applications so let me explain why. Your 22', insulated, 6" flue is perfect. Heating from the basement is a challenge but if your fisher could do it then so can a new stove.

The princess is an excellent primary heater since it burns for up to 30 hours without reloading, that's hugely important for somebody that goes to work for 12 hours every day. You can reduce the burn time by increasing the burn rate which is what I do when it is windy and in the single digits for temperature when I reload every 12 hours. My normal routine for 9 months of the year is to load once per day. Keep the house warm, don't let it cycle to cold. Very high efficiency with the BK which more than pays for the new cat you'll need every 3-5 years of full time burning. I load straight in and have excess room for my 16" splits. The view of the fire is usually no flames, just red coals, since it is designed to burn so slowly that flames are not usually present unless you crank it way up. 3000-3500$ for this stove. This one is in my house. Most excellent decision and worth every penny. Since this is a basement stove you will also appreciate the exclusive thermostat that controls the burn rate of the stove to keep it burning clean and at the desired output even though you aren't there to fiddle with it. Perfect for primary heat from a basement without power.

In my 1800 SF insulated shop with 14' ceilings I have the NC30 bought from home depot. The NC30 is the basic, plate steel, no trim, large firebox, stove you want to be most similar to your fisher but modern with a window and very low emissions. It will burn anything that fits in the large door cleanly and with no smoke out of the loading door, no cat to replace, and a lot of available output. It's only about 0.65 cubic feet bigger than the princess but is much deeper so you can load longer wood. Nice big window that stays clear. I bought mine from home depot delivered for like 700$. No reason I can see to pay 3 or 4 times as much for a LOPI or PE. In my shop application I can burn occasional paper, painted wood, oily rags, plywood, etc. and not worry about damaging a cat. The big reason for this stove is the great reputation as a durable powerhouse. I don't run it low and slow like the princess, I run this stove as hot as safely possible to deliver the maximum heat to the shop in the minimum amount of time. It burns through a firebox every three hours with surface temps peaking and holding 700 for as long as possible.

 

[tarzan]

I love my princes and burn ew ns, it really doesnt matter to me, I'm also on board with the Englander NC30, PE's and kumma's

I burn the occasional long splits east/west myself but my statement was aimed toward the op. He stated he had a lot of wood cut to around 20". Assuming (yeah, I know) a lot means at least a seasons worth, the lack of wiggle room and a 16 1/2" door opening would make it to much of a pita for me.

 

[Highbeam]

I know you said you want this thing to work without power but if you can bend on that a little then I would recommend you look at the wood furnace options. Since you are heating from a basement you can buy one of the newer EPA wood furnaces and either add it on to your existing furnace ductwork or install a separate duct system to deliver the filterer hot air to your living space. That's pretty nice. The furnace can be controlled by a thermostat upstairs. Burn times are lower since these are non-cats but 12 hour reloads are not unheard of. The furnaces are priced about in the middle between the BK stoves and the NC30. Pretty great for a basement install.

 

[Highbeam]

I burn the occasional long splits east/west myself but my statement was aimed toward the op. He stated he had a lot of wood cut to around 20". Assuming (yeah, I know) a lot means at least a seasons worth, the lack of wiggle room and a 16 1/2" door opening would make it to much of a pita for me.

You can load longer splits into the princess as you go up. It's a weird shaped firebox. That first year you might want to suffer through it for the reward of a long term better performing stove.

There are several threads about the guy with 5 cords of wood that is 5 inches too long and how he dealt with it. Everything from setting up a chop saw to lop off the ends of splits as he brings them to the firebox, to setting up a small rack and then chainsawing a whole weeks worth of wood at one time, or just doing the best you can with partial loads. It's not an uncommon problem and not worth changing your stove buying decision for.

 

[tarzan]

You can load longer splits into the princess as you go up. It's a weird shaped firebox. That first year you might want to suffer through it for the reward of a long term better performing stove.

There are several threads about the guy with 5 cords of wood that is 5 inches too long and how he dealt with it. Everything from setting up a chop saw to lop off the ends of splits as he brings them to the firebox, to setting up a small rack and then chainsawing a whole weeks worth of wood at one time, or just doing the best you can with partial loads. It's not an uncommon problem and not worth changing your stove buying decision for.

East/West, you lose the benefit of adding longer pieces as you go up but yeah, some of what he has may go in north/south.

I agree about lopping the ends off. I've done it. No easy or fun way to do it but I would rather spend hours doing that than a season or more (again, assuming, but this is hearth.com where a lot of wood usually means just that) trying to squeeze 20" wood through a 16 1/2" opening into a 21" box.

 

[bholler]

I agree about lopping the ends off. I've done it. No easy or fun way to do it but I would rather spend hours doing that than a season or more

i did it i made up a rack that i stacked about a wheel barrow load in at a time ran a strap around it and cut it all at once. Still a pain but not too bad

 

[45cheese]

It seems that I'll have to just bite the bullet and cut the wood to fit.

I like the 30 hour burn time of the BK princess. I don't like the idea of having to replace the cat every 3 years worst case scenario. What if I can't get them any more?

I do like the fact that the nc30 does not require expensive parts every 3-5 years. But a 3 hour burn time doesn't sit well with me either. I don't want to wake up and add wood to the stove every 3-4 hours at night. Already do that with the fisher. I could just consider the cost of a new catalyst for the BK a convience tax of sorts.

Is there any stoves out there that uses the secondary burn tubes and claims 10 plus hours of burn time/useable heat?

 

[EatenByLimestone]

The 30 will burn longer than 3 hours. I think you can expect an 8+ hour burn from any newer 2 or 3 cubic foot stove on the recommended list. Less at -30, but you're most likely going to want the heat fairly fast anyway at that temp.

 

[45cheese]

I have not read a negative review yet about the NC30. The price is right. But I am willing to spend more if the pros outweigh the cons. 8 hour burn times are not a deal breaker for me. That is impressive. I just want to buy once. I want to be well educated before I go to a dealer and get talked into whatever they are trying to move that day.

 

[Highbeam]

It seems that I'll have to just bite the bullet and cut the wood to fit.

I like the 30 hour burn time of the BK princess. I don't like the idea of having to replace the cat every 3 years worst case scenario. What if I can't get them any more?

I do like the fact that the nc30 does not require expensive parts every 3-5 years. But a 3 hour burn time doesn't sit well with me either. I don't want to wake up and add wood to the stove every 3-4 hours at night. Already do that with the fisher. I could just consider the cost of a new catalyst for the BK a convience tax of sorts.

Is there any stoves out there that uses the secondary burn tubes and claims 10 plus hours of burn time/useable heat?

I may not have been clear enough. The princess burns for 30 hours on low output settings and less hours on higher settings (12 hour reloads work for my home when it's REALLY cold). The NC30 needs to be refilled every three hours at high output settings, folks get much more than three hours when trying to run the nc30 slow but I don't do that in my application. Don't expect any more than 12 hours of heat from any non-cat. The non-cats are unable to burn low and slow but are pretty good at higher settings. Many stoves on the market can burn overnight 8-10 hours at their lowest settings.

A new cat for the princess is 186$. You'll need a new one every 10,000-12000 hours of operation. Easy to swap and you can buy extras if you see the need to futureproof your stove. The higher efficiency of the cat stove will save you enough money in firewood to easily pay for a new cat every other year!

http://www.firecatcombustors.com/category-s/1209.htm

The thermostat is a huge deal when heating from the basement. You don't need to futz with the stove air control at all and it just keeps on making constant low levels of clean heat to keep your hosue warm.

 

[45cheese]

Thanks for the hands on experience! This is very helpful.

I burn seasoned wood in my fisher. But sometimes I get wood that isn't quite dry enough. It's rare but it happens. How does a BK Princess handle a few 30% sticks in the mix. Same question for the NC30?