Replacing Stove Bricks

[glassmanjpf]

Hey all....its been a while since I've been on the site but I know its got a lot great info and contributors. Love my Quadra Fire Cumberland Gap bought in 2005. Am wondering if I should replace the bricks inside. Starting to look a little worn and uneven. Do you guys typically replace the brick after so many years??? what would be the signs. Some of them are cracked too but that has filled with ash. Wondering if after 13 years I should spend $300 on a new set.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Do you have the pumice bricks or the clay ones? If the clay ones, I'd leave them if they aren't in danger of falling apart. They are $2.50-$3ea at the local concrete yard.

 

[begreen]

I think the Cumberland Gap had pumice bricks but not sure. The CG is a sweet stove, but the fire bricks are odd sized. That said, $300 for a set is ridiculous. Some in the stove are most likely due for replacement but I'd shop around. If you are handy you could get a set of standard sized pumice bricks and cut them down to size. Here is one source, but you may find a better one. Just watch the shipping, it adds up.
https://www.stoveworld.com/Pumice-Firebrick-Splits-6-Pack-p/2rpala999.htm

 

[glassmanjpf]

I think the Cumberland Gap had pumice bricks but not sure. The CG is a sweet stove, but the fire bricks are odd sized. That said, $300 for a set is ridiculous. Some in the stove are most likely due for replacement but I'd shop around. If you are handy you could get a set of standard sized pumice bricks and cut them down to size. Here is one source, but you may find a better one. Just watch the shipping, it adds up.
https://www.stoveworld.com/Pumice-Firebrick-Splits-6-Pack-p/2rpala999.htm

Yes your correct it has the pumice brick. Set below $267 with free shipping. I guess I could buy 18 fulls size for $150 and cut them down. Might be easier to just buy the cut set.

https://www.stove-parts-unlimited.c...MIyaDK4tf13gIVlFYNCh3dmwpVEAQYASABEgLG_fD_BwE

 

[glassmanjpf]

Do you have the pumice bricks or the clay ones? If the clay ones, I'd leave them if they aren't in danger of falling apart. They are $2.50-$3ea at the local concrete yard.

thanks for the reply...pumice bricks

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I'm not sure where to find those. I haven't had to deal with them. If the cracks are on the wall bricks, I'd try to move them to the floor, and place the floors on the walks.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

Hey all....its been a while since I've been on the site but I know its got a lot great info and contributors. Love my Quadra Fire Cumberland Gap bought in 2005. Am wondering if I should replace the bricks inside. Starting to look a little worn and uneven. Do you guys typically replace the brick after so many years??? what would be the signs. Some of them are cracked too but that has filled with ash. Wondering if after 13 years I should spend $300 on a new set.

No way. Cutting bricks is easy and cheap. Angle grinder from harbor freight and a diamond cut off wheel. All told, about $20 for the tools.

There is some controversy whether pumice bricks are there for their insulation quality, or just because the lighter weight and cheaper to ship. A member here (@FyreBug) who worked for one of the major stove builders said it was just for cheaper shipping. As he was an insider and had no reason to lie about it, I am adopting his view and will replace my pumice bricks with the cheaper, locally available dense ones when the time comes.

Search "fire brick" in the title only option for some good discussions.

 

[glassmanjpf]

No way. Cutting bricks is easy and cheap. Angle grinder from harbor freight and a diamond cut off wheel. All told, about $20 for the tools.

There is some controversy whether pumice bricks are there for their insulation quality, or just because the lighter weight and cheaper to ship. A member here (@FyreBug) who worked for one of the major stove builders said it was just for cheaper shipping. As he was an insider and had no reason to lie about it, I am adopting his view and will replace my pumice bricks with the cheaper, locally available dense ones when the time comes.

Search "fire brick" in the title only option for some good discussions.

ThanksSounds like a plan.....I already have the angle grinder

 

[Ludlow]

The pumice bricks insulate better and keep a hotter temp in the firebox. You may see a difference in getting secondary burn. If you use clay brick instead on a side or back of the stove set with minimum clearances, keep an eye on wall temps. The stove may radiate more heat when using clay. I want to believe it makes no difference but I have a hard time. Maybe someone will do a comparison using both and posting exterior stove wall temps.

For how long they last they arent all that expensive. Find someone with a wet tile cutter to cut those smaller sizes.

https://www.stoveworld.com/Pumice-Firebrick-Splits-6-Pack-p/2rpala999.htm

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

The pumice bricks insulate better and keep a hotter temp in the firebox. You may see a difference in getting secondary burn. If you use clay brick instead on a side or back of the stove set with minimum clearances, keep an eye on wall temps. The stove may radiate more heat when using clay. I want to believe it makes no difference but I have a hard time. Maybe someone will do a comparison using both and posting exterior stove wall temps.

For how long they last they arent all that expensive. Find someone with a wet tile cutter to cut those smaller sizes.

https://www.stoveworld.com/Pumice-Firebrick-Splits-6-Pack-p/2rpala999.htm

Good points. As I want more heat in my house and less concentrated inside the stove and up the chimney, my preference is a little less insulation. But, I'm not switching the pumice ones for clay until the pumice ones fail.

I researched this at least once on here a year or two ago, and it makes sense that the pumice insulates better, and probably most stoves are tested for that for clearance purposes.

If you search on the topic here, and specifically read through fyrebugs posts, you'll find some interesting information.

 

[Ludlow]

I would be interested to see if someone with standard clay switched them for pumice and if the secondary burn improved in their stove.

 

[MisterFixIT]

> I would be interested to see if someone with standard clay switched them for pumice and if the secondary burn improved in their stove.

I am interested in keeping my pumice side and back and switching the pumice on the floor to clay. The side and back bricks stay pristine but I have an ash hoe and use Ash Dragon(TM) for clean out. The floor bricks get worn out way too quick.

 

[Ludlow]

In that case I would watch the hearth pad for elevated temps since you have a leg stove, depending on what R value pad you have.

 

[MisterFixIT]

Granite slab so no worries. I just don't want to warp the bottom of the stove because of increased heat transfer thru the bottom. Unlikely right?

 

[Ludlow]

Not likely as far as I know. Do they make the steel thinner with pumice brick? I will tell you this: My stove came with pumice. Two of the bricks were cracked in half when I received it. My dealer gave me two clay bricks to replace them. I put the two clays in the front sides. After burning they both are sooted. The rest of the pumice bricks on the sides are spotless like new. Any indication? I plan on getting some pumice bricks to make the stove as it is intended to be operated. My glass got dirty in two days of burning. Dont know if that is related.

 

[begreen]

No way. Cutting bricks is easy and cheap. Angle grinder from harbor freight and a diamond cut off wheel. All told, about $20 for the tools.

There is some controversy whether pumice bricks are there for their insulation quality, or just because the lighter weight and cheaper to ship. A member here (@FyreBug) who worked for one of the major stove builders said it was just for cheaper shipping. As he was an insider and had no reason to lie about it, I am adopting his view and will replace my pumice bricks with the cheaper, locally available dense ones when the time comes.

Search "fire brick" in the title only option for some good discussions.

Here is the thread and with all due respects to FyreBug he was in error on a couple points and kept drifting off topic on another. For some reason the conversation got confounded with baffle construction. They may be one out there, but I can't recall a stove with pumice brick baffle.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/revisiting-fire-brick.159544/

Still one has to ask, why in a competitive market would a stove mfg use a brick costing 4 times as much, say $50 for a large stove in order to save say $10 on shipping? That argument just doesn't hold water. There are advantages to using pumice bricks that many mfgs use to improve their stoves. This could be for different reasons like faster warm up, better EPA scoring, closer clearances. These are engineering design decisions made before a model starts shipping.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

Here is the thread and with all due respects to FyreBug he was in error on a couple points and kept drifting off topic on another. For some reason the conversation got confounded with baffle construction. They may be one out there, but I can't recall a stove with pumice brick baffle.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/revisiting-fire-brick.159544/

Still one has to ask, why in a competitive market would a stove mfg use a brick costing 4 times as much, say $50 for a large stove in order to save say $10 on shipping? That argument just doesn't hold water. There are advantages to using pumice bricks that many mfgs use to improve their stoves. This could be for different reasons like faster warm up, better EPA scoring, closer clearances. These are engineering design decisions made before a model starts shipping.

"Better EPA scoring and closer clearances" and lower shipping costs. That seems like the whole story. It wouldn't make sense, otherwise, the way you put it. Do pumice bricks really cost 4 times as much to manufacture? More, sure, but 4 times?

The pumice bricks are then marketed to us retail buyers as a premium product with premium price. Good way to make a little extra profit. Gillette razor blades are marketed a similar way.

My bottom line is, more heat out of my stove and into my house instead of up the chimney, and spend less on the replacement bricks by using the denser bricks.

 

[Ludlow]

"Better EPA scoring and closer clearances" and lower shipping costs. That seems like the whole story. It wouldn't make sense, otherwise, the way you put it. Do pumice bricks really cost 4 times as much to manufacture? More, sure, but 4 times?

The pumice bricks are then marketed to us retail buyers as a premium product with premium price. Good way to make a little extra profit. Gillette razor blades are marketed a similar way.

My bottom line is, more heat out of my stove and into my house instead of up the chimney, and spend less on the replacement bricks by using the denser bricks.

But does it really amount to more heat in the house? If the internal temps get higher faster, wouldnt that equate to more net heat production as a result? The stovetop is going to put off whatever available heat is under it. Same with the front and glass and connector.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

But does it really amount to more heat in the house? If the internal temps get higher faster, wouldnt that equate to more net heat production as a result? The stovetop is going to put off whatever available heat is under it. Same with the front and glass and connector.

Nope.

The heat travels slowly through the stove walls, very quickly up the chimney. The closer you get to perfectly insulated, the more heat goes up the flue.

A good example is the oven in your kitchen. Except if your oven had a 6" vent to evacuate the heat out of your house. My goal is to get more heat in the house and less up the chimney.

I burned most of my life in a stove without bricks. Much better heater. The bricks purpose is to make the fire hot and clean to meet EPA standards. Much more heat vents through the chimney with the bricks.

 

[Ludlow]

I can only imagine the chimney fires with an unlined stove.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

I can only imagine the chimney fires with an unlined stove.

Hundred of years of stoves without firebricks, well back to Been Franklin anyway, relatively recent development.

You can still burn hot and clean without bricks- dry wood gets you most of the way there.

I have 30 years on a stove without bricks, and I clean the chimney myself, it's barely worse than my modern stove and chimney.

 

[begreen]

"Better EPA scoring and closer clearances" and lower shipping costs. That seems like the whole story.

You forgot faster to heat up the firebox. Pumice bricks are not manufactured, they are cut from real pumice stone. Clay firebricks are mass manufactured and much cheaper to make.

I have 30 years on a stove without bricks, and I clean the chimney myself, it's barely worse than my modern stove and chimney.

It's good that you are burning the old stove hot and clean. Though you can bet your last dollar that the emissions difference between the two stoves is huge. Multiply that times 30 yrs burning and you can gag a village.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

You forgot faster to heat up the firebox. Pumice bricks are not manufactured, they are cut from real pumice stone. Clay firebricks are mass manufactured and much cheaper to make.

It's good that you are burning the old stove hot and clean. Though you can bet your last dollar that the emissions difference between the two stoves is huge. Multiply that times 30 yrs burning and you can gag a village.

I'm impressed you read so close. I left faster to heat out on purpose. The bricks gets the fire inside the box hot faster, not outside.

My SBI firebrick is composite pumice, I believe. But, I don't know for sure.

Artisanal, hand-carved pumice stones bricks, for the most discriminating wood heaters. Compliments the fine craftsmanship forged of steel and cast iron on the exterior of your prized wood heating appliance. Keep your flue squeaky clean, and your neighbors healthy and happy. You actually clean the air as you keep your family in shorts and t shirts in the coldest dead of winter.

Begreen, you should be writing the stove companies' brochures.

And yes, I know the exhaust is cleaner in my modern EPA stove, I was just saying the chimney wasn't that dirty on the old stove burned correctly.

The old VC Resolute downdraft design was ahead of it's time, probably a bit of an outlier.

 

[begreen]

I'm very familiar with the old Resolute. Owned one for about 5 years. Nice stove but about 25x dirtier than a modern VC stove. Here's the perfect firewood especially made classic stoves. It would be a shame to burn anything of lesser quality in the old VC.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

I'm very familiar with the old Resolute. Owned one for about 5 years. Nice stove but about 25x dirtier than a modern VC stove. Here's the perfect firewood especially made classic stoves. It would be a shame to burn anything of lesser quality in the old VC.

I've seen this before.

If you saw the amount of time I spend cutting too long splits to size, stripping the bark off, then wire brushing and brooming the dirt and other residue off, you'd see there's a fine line between the satire portrayed in the video, and my process.

I'm not sure if the time I spend doing that, or the time I spend on a certain home heating web forum, is time more wisely spent. It's a toss up.