replacing VC Monpelier II wood stove insert?

[ghosting]

I have a Vermont Castings Montpelier II in my house (northeast US) which was installed by the previous owners of my house (I think in 2017); it was installed into an older masonry fireplace with a new flue lining it. It's in fine shape (or so they told me when I had it cleaned before the season), and I've been enjoying learning to make better fires, etc. There are two main issues:

1. It's if I turn on the blower, or next to useless. The blower may need replacing (cleaning the dust didn't seem to be the only issue). It's been very loud since we moved in (like, must turn it off to watch TV in an adjacent room loud), but now it doesn't start right anyway.
2. More importantly, it just doesn't work to warm the house that well. Without the blower (and with the door shut), I would say that it only warms the immediate surrounds. Even with the blower, if it's a cold day, I can hear the baseboard heating kicking on throughout the day even when a good fire has been established.

VC's materials say that I can order a new blower from a local shop, which I may look into doing. (It's unclear on the cost of the part; I can replace it myself, though, according to their materials.)

But before I replaced the blower, I was curious about the idea of pulling out the insert and replacing it with a new, even-more-efficient, catalytic wood stove. Removing the insert would provide a fair amount of space (VC gives the size as 31-1/2" width x 23-1/8" height x 17-5/8" depth), and there's a brick hearth extending 32" into the room. I've been trying to figure out the pros and cons of this before I start trying to find an installer and get quotes. Thanks for any help!

 

[bholler]

I have a Vermont Castings Montpelier II in my house (northeast US) which was installed by the previous owners of my house (I think in 2017); it was installed into an older masonry fireplace with a new flue lining it. It's in fine shape (or so they told me when I had it cleaned before the season), and I've been enjoying learning to make better fires, etc. There are two main issues:

1. It's if I turn on the blower, or next to useless. The blower may need replacing (cleaning the dust didn't seem to be the only issue). It's been very loud since we moved in (like, must turn it off to watch TV in an adjacent room loud), but now it doesn't start right anyway.
2. More importantly, it just doesn't work to warm the house that well. Without the blower (and with the door shut), I would say that it only warms the immediate surrounds. Even with the blower, if it's a cold day, I can hear the baseboard heating kicking on throughout the day even when a good fire has been established.

VC's materials say that I can order a new blower from a local shop, which I may look into doing. (It's unclear on the cost of the part; I can replace it myself, though, according to their materials.)

But before I replaced the blower, I was curious about the idea of pulling out the insert and replacing it with a new, even-more-efficient, catalytic wood stove. Removing the insert would provide a fair amount of space (VC gives the size as 31-1/2" width x 23-1/8" height x 17-5/8" depth), and there's a brick hearth extending 32" into the room. I've been trying to figure out the pros and cons of this before I start trying to find an installer and get quotes. Thanks for any help!

I would start by figuring out why the stove you have isn't heating properly. Yes as an insert it is going to be much more reliant on a blower. But they do heat pretty well.

What moisture content is your wood at? Does the fireplace have a block off plate? How are you running the stove?

 

[ghosting]

I would start by figuring out why the stove you have isn't heating properly. Yes as an insert it is going to be much more reliant on a blower. But they do heat pretty well.

What moisture content is your wood at? Does the fireplace have a block off plate? How are you running the stove?

That's helpful just to know that it's not supposed to be quite like this. It may just be a blower that doesn't work... or the block off plate. Is it possible that the path for the blower's air is blocked in some way? As I understand it, the blown air travels from beneath the stove up and around it to come out from vents above the door.

I don't know if there's a block off plate; I imagine that I'd need to remove the insert to check. Is that not something any installer would do? They appear to have otherwise been competent.

I haven't bought a moisture meter yet, but the wood is not the best-seasoned (I bought it from a recommended source, pre-cut, and it's clearly got some variety in how seasoned it actually is). To counteract that, I've been bringing it inside for 24+ hours to dry out a bit more before burning, and it catches quite well. Because I've been trying to get hotter fires, I've been running the stove by lighting a fire with several pieces, and once it's hot coals, burning several new large pieces at a time. (Probably refilling the stove every two hours or so.)

 

[bholler]

That's helpful just to know that it's not supposed to be quite like this. It may just be a blower that doesn't work... or the block off plate. Is it possible that the path for the blower's air is blocked in some way? As I understand it, the blown air travels from beneath the stove up and around it to come out from vents above the door.

I don't know if there's a block off plate; I imagine that I'd need to remove the insert to check. Is that not something any installer would do? They appear to have otherwise been competent.

I haven't bought a moisture meter yet, but the wood is not the best-seasoned (I bought it from a recommended source, pre-cut, and it's clearly got some variety in how seasoned it actually is). To counteract that, I've been bringing it inside for 24+ hours to dry out a bit more before burning, and it catches quite well. Because I've been trying to get hotter fires, I've been running the stove by lighting a fire with several pieces, and once it's hot coals, burning several new large pieces at a time. (Probably refilling the stove every two hours or so.)

So you are only loading a couple pieces at a time? What are you doing with the air control?

 

[John B]

You should get a small fire started but then fill it with as much wood as you can fit in the box, then see what the heat output is like. If you dont add enough wood it wont make enough heat.

The best way to run an EPA stove is to load it to the gills then let the load take its course, refilling when the box gets back to hot coles.

 

[ghosting]

You should get a small fire started but then fill it with as much wood as you can fit in the box, then see what the heat output is like. If you dont add enough wood it wont make enough heat.

The best way to run an EPA stove is to load it to the gills then let the load take its course, refilling when the box gets back to hot coles.

So you are only loading a couple pieces at a time? What are you doing with the air control?

Hmmm. I'd say I'm adding 3+ pieces at a time, but not that it's "load[ed] to the gills". Maybe this is the problem. By and large, the air control (the stove only has one) is on fully open, which is their recommendation for how to get the hottest fire. I do also think there's a problem with the blower, but trying to get a good coal bed (which I've done) and then fill it up as much as I can (which I have not) seems like a good testing step. Thanks to both of you!

 

[fbelec]

you got to much air going thru the stove. once you get a fire going good after say 30 minutes start backing down the air. down to 3/4 then 15 minutes down to 1/2 and the maybe a little more. see how you are heating then. that's after filling it.

 

[bholler]

Hmmm. I'd say I'm adding 3+ pieces at a time, but not that it's "load[ed] to the gills". Maybe this is the problem. By and large, the air control (the stove only has one) is on fully open, which is their recommendation for how to get the hottest fire. I do also think there's a problem with the blower, but trying to get a good coal bed (which I've done) and then fill it up as much as I can (which I have not) seems like a good testing step. Thanks to both of you!

If the air is all the way open you are sending all of your heat out the chimney. Yes it gives you the hottest fire but actually the least heat output

 

[Stateguy]

My Montpellier 1 had a thermostat in which the blower came on at a certain temperature
I wound up breaking it trying to take out the blower to clean it
My blower is noisy also but don’t sound as loud as yours. But I open the bottom panel and push against the blower a quite down
I also put a desk fan blowing towards the glass to circulate some air
i always felt that my stove never heated my house well.
And I also feel I burn through wood pretty quickly ( like there air leak)

 

[zmender]

Also burning in a Monteplier 1 with a noisy blower - seems like this is a common problem in VC?

The stove puts out decent heat for me when ran hard - heating about 1500 sq ft of living space split across 3 levels and 16ft-ish cathedral ceilings. Fill it to the brim and then somehow stuff some more wood in, once flame catches I turn my air control all the way to the right. First hour or so with small flame front, it puts out some warmth but nothing extraordinary, 2nd - 4th hour when all logs are wreathed in flames and secondary is going off, the air from blower gets too hot to hold hand there for more than a few seconds. If I open door to add more logs I can't get near stove without gloves.
4th-6th hour not much flames but stove is putting out serious heat with coals. 6th hour onward stove starts to cool off. Whatever lingering coals after 6, 7 hours are only useful for reload.

 

[ghosting]

My Montpellier 1 had a thermostat in which the blower came on at a certain temperature
I wound up breaking it trying to take out the blower to clean it

So I've realized that (a) I have a Montpelier 1, not a 2, and (b) I might have done this as well. Were you able to fix it? Any advice?

 

[ghosting]

Also burning in a Monteplier 1 with a noisy blower - seems like this is a common problem in VC?

The stove puts out decent heat for me when ran hard - heating about 1500 sq ft of living space split across 3 levels and 16ft-ish cathedral ceilings. Fill it to the brim and then somehow stuff some more wood in, once flame catches I turn my air control all the way to the right. First hour or so with small flame front, it puts out some warmth but nothing extraordinary, 2nd - 4th hour when all logs are wreathed in flames and secondary is going off, the air from blower gets too hot to hold hand there for more than a few seconds. If I open door to add more logs I can't get near stove without gloves.
4th-6th hour not much flames but stove is putting out serious heat with coals. 6th hour onward stove starts to cool off. Whatever lingering coals after 6, 7 hours are only useful for reload.

This is great! Thank you for these suggestions! Been very nice during this weekend's storm.

 

[zmender]

This is the manual in case you need it... I think it was @john26 who post it first

 

[ghosting]

This is the manual in case you need it... I think it was @john26 who post it first

Thank you!

 

[ghosting]

An update, for anyone finding this later: with the help of Stateguy's comment and a youtube video (this one) on testing the components of a blower, I realized that I seem to have a problem with the thermostatic switch. (Part 30005236, which VC calls the "snapstat" in the manual.) It looks like they're available for about $20, which is (much!) cheaper than replacing the blower entirely. It's actually very easy to skip the thermostatic switch in the circuit of the blower because the wiring is plug-and-play and there's a wiring diagram on the blower itself. So for the short-term, I re-wired it to just be manually on-off. I may even prefer this!

Also, cleaning the dust out of the blower was quite helpful on the noise, although of course it's not gone.

And of course, the suggestions made by several other members (bholler, zmender) about how to burn it hotter have helped in warmth! Thanks to all of you on that.

 

[zmender]

The noisy fan is a PITA and work in progress for me - @canboy made some suggestions in this older thread, I haven't acted on it yet: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/vc-montpelier-fan.178052/#post-2392850

Kenneth, I experienced the same issue ten years ago when I first bought the Montpelier. I pulled the fan and operated it on my bench to see if I could isolate the hum. It turned out that there was absolutely no hum when operating on the bench, so it had to be a vibration when operating in the stove. The fan is attached by two screws, to the thin sheet metal skin that surrounds the stove. The skin is too flimsy and a vibration results. So, I used non flammable material to shim under the fan (and between the skin and the base of the fireplace) to elimate the vibration. It took a few tries to get it right, but once done, I haven't had a problem since. Others experienced the same and solved it the same way.

 

[ghosting]

The noisy fan is a PITA and work in progress for me - @canboy made some suggestions in this older thread, I haven't acted on it yet: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/vc-montpelier-fan.178052/#post-2392850

That was similar to my experience -- although I didn't have any idea of what to use to create shims under the fan. You can buy padding for blowers in general, but I don't think that's the solution here.

I tried to upload the audio of the blower here, but my phone camera damps down how bad the "loud" sound was and seems to emphasize the "quiet":

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As I said above, the "loud" sound would interfere with watching television. The quieter, cleaned fan does not. Adding a shim may be even better, but this is a huge improvement from my perspective.

 

[canboy]

Cleaning your fan clearly reduced the level of noise substantially. Though, I still hear a ticking sound. It might be a bearing or maybe some lubrication would help, though I don't think that is recommended anywhere. Or, it could be some shaking noise.

With regard to shims.... I found that the metal skin shook and rattled when the fan was running. You might be able to see that in your stove, by observing and feeling for movement/shaking of the skin and fan, when it is running. I pushed some non combustible material in the 1/16" gap at the front of the stove, between the skin and my hearth. Then I also jammed some material between the fan and the skin (in the same area). That really stiffened things up and went a long way to quieting things down. It took a few tries and repositionings of the material until I was happy. For the shims, I used some fireproof material that would be similiar to an 1/8 inch thick welding blanket.

Unfortunately with an insert, you do have to run the fan to get more heat out. But you don't have to run it on high to get the benefit. Running at slower speed increases the firebox temperature and the temperature of the air being circulated. Yes, the amount of air circulated is reduced, but so is the noise level. If the Montpelier had levels on the fan that ran from 1 to 9, then when I am in the room, I run at about a 3.

Hope this helps.