Respiratory Dangers from Wood Smoke

[Parallax]

My wife and I are new to wood burning. We have an infant. He was born last summer and this is our first winter with the stove. We've done our best to shield him from smoke, but the stove has produced some smoke in the house. Many of the articles I've read online indicate the burning wood is more dangerous than smoking cigarettes, that 70% of the pollution that's vented outside the home gets back in, and that there are many long-term risks (such as cancer) to which young children are most vulnerable.

I'm wondering what the experts around here think. Clearly, people have been burning wood for millennia. But then again, the average lifespan until quite recently was probably around 40.

 

[Creekheat]

More dangerous than cigarettes. Dude what left wing site did you read that crap on. Do you know what wood contains? Wood. As in...all wood.

A cigarette contains over 100 different chemicals one of which is ammonia. Know why? Because ammonia helps the nicotine transfer to the blood faster. Filter your articles. Children have been around burning wood since? What? The Stone Age?

Dude no disrespect but seriously.

 

[Woody Stover]

Are you getting smoke out of the stove door when it's opened? What is your chimney setup and how tall is it? If you're worried about smoke coming back in from outside (I find that 70% hard to believe,) put an air purifier in the kids' rooms.

A cigarette contains over 100 different chemicals

Tobacco isn't all that dangerous, that's just another myth like "butter and eggs are bad for you, and pharmaceuticals are good for you." At any rate, neither would be pleasant but I think I would rather breathe cigarette smoke than an equal concentration of wood smoke!

 

[Creekheat]

I know several people in the industry. Trust me it's bad. Ok yeah. Don't out a wood stove in. Stack a wall of cigarettes and light them for heat. Is this a serious thread?

 

[Woody Stover]

I know several people in the industry. Trust me it's bad. Ok yeah. Don't out a wood stove in. Stack a wall of cigarettes and light them for heat. Is this a serious thread?

What industry? Yeah, there have been other similar threads and I think they were all serious. But I think Bio-bricks or kiln-dried wood is about as expensive as burning cigs for heat. Hey, you're from KY, you're supposed to be pro-tobacco and pro-coal.

 

[Simonkenton]

"..., that 70% of the pollution that's vented outside the home gets back in..."

That is not true. If seventy percent of the smoke that went up the stack came back in the house, you would need a gas mask to sit on the sofa and watch a football game.
My house smells a little bit of smoke if I have a hard time lighting the stove, which I usually don't. Open a few windows and the smoke smell is gone in a few minutes.

I did read a report, some years ago, that wood stoves put out pollution into the house that is dangerous. I would like to see a sensible study on this potential problem.
But, seventy percent back into the house? No way, more like one/seventieth of one percent.

 

[Creekheat]

Lol I'm "from" NY. I have lived here forever but not a native.

 

[Poindexter]

The reports I have read concur that air pollution levels inside the home will generally be 50-70% of the outdoor concentrations.

So if your outdoor concentration of wood smoke particles is 25 micrograms per cubic meter you can look for 12.5 to 17.5 mcg per cubic meter indoors, even in homes with no woodstove. Not 70% of all the smoke coming out the stack, rather 70% of the concentration found in the house lot or neighborhood as a whole.

I do run a couple HEPA filters inside my house. My wife is asthmatic enough that I can't run the ones with an ozone generating stage.

My outdoor PM2.5 air quality this winter is running pretty much 20-30 mcg per cubic meter day in and day out, I am running a large HEPA filter for 300sqft and a smaller one rated for 85sqft, both on the 1200sqft upper level of my house that also has the stove in it. My wife and I can both feel the difference with the filters running. I don't know my indoor PM2.5 concentration.

My take on the PM2.5 reports is we know its bad, but we aren't sure how bad. No one is touting it as nutritious or causing weight loss. I think guessing the effect of PM2.5 on a single kid is a fool's errand, but we have enough data to look at populations and conclude that less is better for the population cohort.

 

[Woody Stover]

The reports I have read concur that air pollution levels inside the home will generally be 50-70% of the outdoor concentrations.

OK, that makes sense; Pollutants at a constant level will get in, intermittent smoke, not much.

 

[Beer Belly]

My Wife has developed an intermittent cough and feels it may be from the stove drying out the air.....she's the only one in the house having this issue and she's the only one who is a smoker (just us and the pup)....should I invest in a Humidifier before a trip to the Doc (if I can get her to go)

 

[F4jock]

I'm really having a hard time believing this . . . . .

There are special interest groups who. If you listened to them all would have you believe that everything, including hiding under the bed to escape life, is dangerous to everyone. If you feel that the small amount of smoke that may at times get into your home is dangerous get rid of your stove and heat with . . . . what exactly? Even the generation of electricity produces pollutants that make their way into the air.

Ever since mankind discovered fire we've been introducing particulates onto the atmosphere. As suggested above, take a look at your vent setup and put a non-ozone generating HEPA in the child's room OR yank out the woodstove, seal the house and huddle under blankets until spring. Then you can worry about pollen. . . . . . . .

 

[JA600L]

Do you have central air? If I ever get things Smokey by accident I just run the air handler for 10 minutes and let the filter catch the worst of it. You can get pretty fine air filters.

 

[Swedishchef]

I'm wondering what the experts around here think.

I am not too certain that people on these forums are experts regarding long term risks for heating with wood (cancer, etc).

Do I think it's great for the air quality? Not overly. My son has had a cough for 4 months. And as Beer Belly stated, I am certain it is due to the dry air. My stove is in my basement and I rarely have smoke upstairs/outside.

More dangerous than cigarettes. Dude what left wing site did you read that crap on. Do you know what wood contains? Wood. As in...all wood.

Unfortunately Crickheat, the OP is somewhat correct. I am not trying to start a fear frenzy but wood isn't just wood. When burning wood, a long list of chemicals in the wood begin decomposing, reacting and transforming. Here's a list of things that go up your stack. These compounds do not necessarily exist in wood's natural format but can be created during the combustion of the components of wood:

• PM10 (inhalable particulate matter less than 10 microns in diameter) – PM10 has been declared a toxic substance under the Canadian Environmental Protection Act. PM10 can be inhaled deep into the lungs, leading to serious respiratory problems, which can result in premature death, hospital admissions from respiratory causes and increased respiratory symptoms.
• Carbon monoxide (CO) – CO can reduce the blood’s ability to supply necessary oxygen to the body’s tissues, which can cause stress to the heart. When inhaled at high levels, CO may cause fatigue, headaches, dizziness, nausea, confusion and disorientation and, at very high levels, lead to unconsciousness and death.
• Oxides of nitrogen (NOx) – NOx can lower the resistance to lung infections. In particular, nitrogen dioxide can cause shortness of breath and irritate the upper airways, especially in people with lung diseases such as emphysema and asthma.
• Hydrocarbons (HC) – HC can damage the lungs.
• Volatile organic compounds (VOCs) – VOCs can cause respiratory irritation and illness. Some VOCs emitted by wood burning appliances, such as benzene, are known to be carcinogenic.
• Formaldehyde – Formaldehyde can cause coughing, headaches and eye irritation and can act as a trigger for people with asthma.
• Polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs) – Prolonged exposure to PAHs is believed to pose a cancer risk.
• Dioxins and furans – Some dioxins and furans are carcinogenic.
• Acrolein – Acrolein can cause eye and respiratory tract irritation

HOWEVER, that being said, these are all in small doses. Very small. I'd be more concerned for those living in a city with smog alerts, people living beside a mining smelter, etc etc etc.

I have 2 young kids and feel my burning habits are safe for them. I grew up in houses where there was a cloud of smoke from people smoking cigarettes.. Remember this? At hospitals, doctors would meet you while smoking! Now you can't smoke within 10 metres of a building.

Andrew

 

[F4jock]

I am not too certain that people on these forums are experts regarding long term risks for heating with wood (cancer, etc).

Do I think it's great for the air quality? Not overly. My son has had a cough for 4 months. And as Beer Belly stated, I am certain it is due to the dry air.

Andrew

So get a humidifier.

And one really has to go some to reach toxic concentrations of the substances you've listed.

Everything is dangerous in one way or another. Even distilled or purified water can kill you if you drink several gallons of it at a sitting or inhale too much of it.

 

[Swedishchef]

So get a humidifier.

We started humidifying the air and it's all good now.

 

[TheRambler]

Also the idea that people used to die really young ie around 40 is a myth. Do some real research into it and you will see that lots of people lived to well beyond 60. Many cases of people living into their 70s and even 80s and beyond. It was about hygiene and a active life style. The more "well off" you were the longer you lived closer to todays average. Modern medicine has Only had a small impact in longevity in the grand scheme of things. If the average person in the medieval ages had better hygiene they probably would outlive the average person today.

Look around, it is still very common for people to die in their 60s and 70s.

 

[F4jock]

Also the idea that people used to die really young ie around 40 is a myth. Do some real research into it and you will see that lots of people lived to well beyond 60. Many cases of people living into their 70s and even 80s and beyond. It was about hygiene and a active life style. The more "well off" you were the longer you lived closer to todays average. Modern medicine has Only had a small impact in longevity in the grand scheme of things. If the average person in the medieval ages had better hygiene they probably would outlive the average person today.

Look around, it is still very common for people to die in their 60s and 70s.

× 27

My grandfather lived a good life to 83. Worked outdoors until he was 80. Ate everything you shouldn't. Smoked Luckies but quit. Frankly I've seen people live into their 90s with no quality of life at all but by God they were 90! If you have problems with wood burning by all means take whatever protective measures you feel you need to within your own sphere but kindly leave me to mine.

 

[moey]

I dont think there are many medical experts on this site. Although we can all use google.

Does your home seem smokey? We have a neighbor whose house just stinks of smoke they have a small child. They have a old smoke dragon a chimney that has very little rise. Some days there house is completely surrounded in smoke. Im sure there are suffering some ill effects of all the smoke whether it will produce long term effects who know.

 

[F4jock]

I dont think there are many medical experts on this site. Although we can all use google.

And to be honest, even the professional medical experts are wrong often enough to make one wonder.

I've managed to get to 68 with no major medical problems living life pretty much as I see fit. I have no money problems, a great home, a beautiful, intelligent and accomplished wife, our kids are all out of the house and doing well and our grandchildren are being raised properly.

Managed to do it all without sweating the small stuff and IMNTBHO almost everything is small stuff. People need to worry less and enjoy more.

 

[ailanthus]

Also the idea that people used to die really young ie around 40 is a myth

Not a myth exactly, just a statistic that's easy to misinterpret. The 40 year life expectancy was driven down largely by child & infant mortality. There were still plenty of people living to 70s & 80s+.

My 2 cents is that some of the respiratory/breathing issue in my family IMPROVED after the wood stove compared to a older forced air system. I still don't humidify in any way, that would help even more...

 

[Swedishchef]

The 40 year life expectancy was driven down largely by child & infant mortality.

Exactly There used to be lots of newborns die at birth. So if a set of twins was born and one died and the other lived to be 100, the average lifespan was 50. Nowadays newborn death rates a minute fraction compared to what they were.

Be active, eat decent and the rest is history. Just don't forget YOLO (you only live once).

Andrew

 

[F4jock]

Exactly There used to be lots of newborns die at birth. So if a set of twins was born and one died and the other lived to be 100, the average lifespan was 50. Nowadays newborn death rates a minute fraction compared to what they were.

Be active, eat decent and the rest is history. Just don't forget YOLO (you only live once).

Andrew

Even now the US stats are driven down because we define "live birth" differently than most other nations.

 

[Wood Duck]

I don't like the smell of smoke in my house, and I have a flue that doesn't draw well so smoke can leak into the house when I reload. I always close the door to the stove room and open two windows on opposite sides of the room so I get a cross wind (it is almost always windy here). I reload and while I am waiting for the fire to get going I let any smoke blow out the window. Yes, I lose some heat but I am able to heat with wood and not have any smell of smoke in the house. I assume that no detectable smell means little or no danger from smoke.

I am not trying to imply that I think wood smoke is a significant danger. I don't. I am just saying it is possible to heat with wood and a less-than-great draw from your flue and still not have smoke in the house.

 

[jatoxico]

I haven't read an articles on wood smoke specifically but from what I gather from sources I trust I have no doubt wood smoke can be harmful. When evaluating the effects it's generally not useful to discuss isolated cases or the outliers, It's better to look at the population. I would hope we all agree that cigarette smoking is bad for your health (heart disease, respiratory diseases...) because there is enough evidence to prove it. So hearing of some old codger who lived to 80 while smoking his whole life does not convince me smoking is risk free.

So it's about understanding (not ignoring) the dangers and managing risk. Wood smoke is toxic so it makes sense to limit your exposure. For me that means using my EPA stove properly. If I had a smoke spillage problem I would fix it. If my home regularly smelled of smoke I would take steps to correct it.

To the OP as long as you burn properly and there is nothing obstructing the chimney exhaust from freely going up and away from your home the dilution factor should quickly cause PM concentrations to drop to safe levels.

 

[bags]

I am a little more worried about walking out of my front door and being hit by a bus. It's COMMON SENSE people. Never mind...........